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  1. #181
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Recently I replaced the SP 3HP motor on my twin bag DC with a 4HP 3P motor and a VFD and thought you might like to see the VFD implementation and control panel I set up for it.

    The DC is outside the shed in an enclosure and powered via the VFD located inside near the middle of one of the long walls of the shed. As my main wood dust making machinery is not more than 4m from the VFD I'm not adding a wireless remote although adding one in the future will be very easy to do.

    Anyway here is the setup
    DCelecricals.jpg

    1 = Mains power and E switch

    2 = is a rotary switch with 5 positions: (a) no function (b) 40 Hz (c) 50 Hz (d) 60z and (e) no function.
    If the motor is running courtesy of switch 5, then positions (a) and (e) are where the speed can be set by the potentiometer (3)
    When the other positions (b c d) are selected the DC motor operates at the selected speed.

    3 = traditional potentiometer

    4 = Delay timer. This OMORON delay timer is overkill for this purpose but I found a couple of them in an AC control box by the side of the road and they do make it very easy to perform things like delayed switching.

    5 = ON/Off - Delay Off switch.
    When this switch is UP the DC motor runs as per usually, Middle position switches DC motor OFF, DOWN position means the DC runs for the time selected by timer (4)

    Usual operation will be
    Start VFD using (1) followed by (5) flipped into the UP position
    Select speed either with (2) or (3)
    While working boost/decrease speed using (2) or (3) - why? because I hate noise and the large air flow makes a lot of noise.
    When finished making dust reduce speed (and noise) for venting using (2) or (3) and toggle switch 5 to delay off position (DOWN)
    Head off for coffee or lunch or snooze.

    Using a preset speed is a second or 2 quicker than adjusting with the potentiometer which is handy when you are in a rush.

    VFDcntrols.jpg

    The multispeed switching capability I describe above is available on most VFDs
    Most VFDs will have up to 6 or even 8 digital inputs which can be used to switch between the 6 or so speeds.

    On the HY VFD they even have dedicated input terminals called SPL (Low Speed) SPM (Medium Speed) and SPH (high) for the switching lines (see red lines on photo below)
    To select these speeds you just short the relevant terminal to DCM (digital ground) via an external switch - a rotary switch is a pretty easy way to do this rather than setting up a series of independent switches. About 8 parameters need to be changed in the software but it's fairly easy to do once you know how/

    Multispeed.jpg
    Last edited by BobL; 20th October 2018 at 01:07 PM.

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  3. #182
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    1,813

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    Cheers for the write up Bob, very interesting!

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  4. #183
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Bay Area, Ca
    Posts
    3

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    HI All!

    I come for help after hearing my 1 year old 4k Huanyang Pop and go bad two days ago. It's mounted on an old powermatic 16" planer. I didn't even turn the planer on, just plugged in the VFD, it booted up and a minute later it popped.

    I dont want to change to a single phase 5hp motor as that's like $450 plus the cost of a magnetic switch to handle the amps.

    I plan to order this huanyang vfd today so I can get it by friday. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza

    How do I wire in a simple on off switch for the VFD? I use my dryer outlet for several tools and it's a hassle turn the breaker off, plug in the vfd and then flip the breaker.

    I know many wire in a simple toggle switch but I'm lost in how that's done. Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    EDIT:

    here are pics of my wiring. Do I need conduit from the motor to VFD or different wire? I'm certainly going to put the new VFD inside an enclosure of some sort when I install it.


  5. #184
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodPsych View Post
    I come for help after hearing my 1 year old 4k Huanyang Pop and go bad two days ago. It's mounted on an old powermatic 16" planer. I didn't even turn the planer on, just plugged in the VFD, it booted up and a minute later it popped.
    BEWARE: Don't necessarily blame the VFD for this problem.
    Even though you did not start the planer BEFORE you attach the new VFD it is essential you get the motor checked out.
    Also having your VFD down close to the floor like that makes it a candidate for dust incursion and it is indeed a good idea to put the VFD inside an enclosure but make sue that if it is a small enclosure that the enclosure is vented with filtered air OR locate above the dust making site.

    I plan to order this huanyang vfd today so I can get it by friday. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza
    WHOA - that is a 1HP (0.75kW) VFD - I cannot imagine a 16" planer being driven by a 1HP motor. Please check this urgently - this may be the cause of your original problem. You say you had a 4k Huanyang - does that mean it was a 4kW VFD? If so that sounds more like it.

    How do I wire in a simple on off switch for the VFD? I use my dryer outlet for several tools and it's a hassle turn the breaker off, plug in the vfd and then flip the breaker.
    I know many wire in a simple toggle switch but I'm lost in how that's done. Any help would be appreciated.
    You should refer to the manual for your specific VFD as they are not all the same. On some HuanYangs the stop start of the VFD is performed by placing a switch between the FWD and DCM terminals but you must check your manual to confirm this. In case you are not aware the VFD must already be on for this to work.

    t sounds like you are constantly turning the VFD ON/OFF. Budget level VFDs don't like to be constantly turned completely off and on all the time especially if they have not had time to discharge the load off their capacitors and this may be another cause of your problem. It's better to leave cheap VFDs turned ON and in standby mode and only turn them off at the end of a working session. Unless it is an emergency they should only be turned off once the motor has completely stopped. It sounds to me like you need to get an extra 220V power point installed and leave the planer VFD plugged in.

    Another issue which may have lead to your VFD problem above is that the acceleration and deceleration rates may have been too fast. For a while the VFD can cope but over time this stresses the capacitors and that's what you heard pop. I would change the acc/deceleration times to something like 20s. Better quality VFDs that use better components can more easily cope with this.

  6. #185
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Bay Area, Ca
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    3

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    Replacement Huanyang 4kw came today. Before I do any installing and I want to make sure I have things correct.

    My initial connections had power from wall going to R & S and ground to green. Should I have it go S & T instead?

    Is the solid coper ground wire from the VFD terminal to the mounting plate of the planer ok?

    Is there a way to run a switch to turn the planer on and off instead of using the run and stop on the VFD?

    Ideally I'd mount the VFD on the wall several feet away and use a toggle switch mounted on the planer. Not sure if that's possible.

    If not, I'm going to put the VFD either in an enclosure or wrap filter around it to prevent dust from coming in.

    I'm also going to run the cable from the VFD to motor in conduit.

  7. #186
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodPsych View Post
    Replacement Huanyang 4kw came today. Before I do any installing and I want to make sure I have things correct.
    My initial connections had power from wall going to R & S and ground to green. Should I have it go S & T instead?
    It doesn't matter

    Is the solid coper ground wire from the VFD terminal to the mounting plate of the planer ok?
    Yes, provided it is of a similar gauge to the wires connecting the VFD to the motor

    Is there a way to run a switch to turn the planer on and off instead of using the run and stop on the VFD?
    Yes there is - it's in the manual. You will also need to change some VFD parameters - these are all in the manual. If you get stuck post again

    Ideally I'd mount the VFD on the wall several feet away and use a toggle switch mounted on the planer. Not sure if that's possible.
    If not, I'm going to put the VFD either in an enclosure or wrap filter around it to prevent dust from coming in.
    I would not wrap filter media around it as this will restrict the air flow around/through the VFD. An enclosure is better - read the manual to see the size you should use. If it is smaller than the recommended size it should be vented using a fan. It sounds a bit daft but an enclosure even with a fan will substantial reduce the amount of dust that gets to the VFD. If it still concerns you then adding some filter media over the fan will further reduce dust entry.

  8. #187
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    Jun 2018
    Location
    Bay Area, Ca
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    3

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    Well this VFD is going back. Ordered a 4kw Huanyang and got sent a Isacon Power VFD. Took front panel off and the terminal strip is much smaller, only one row of the green terminals. Only three big black capacitors as opposed to 4 in the Hunayang. Imagine other parts are smaller or less. There's also not a foil sticker on the side anywhere to prevent it it from being taken apart. Just seems like a knock off and less well made than a Huanyang.

    Really need to get this 5hp planer running. I'm at the point where buying a 5hp single phase motor in the long run is easier. Just gotta get one same RPM and mounting plate. 5hp single phase motor runs about $450 I think.

    Good reviews on the Lapond 4kw (5hp) VFD on amazon for $230 however. Might be worth trying, if it blows in the first year it's still under warranty.

  9. #188
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
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    Get ahold of Powtran and tell them what the motor specs are and ask for a recomendation. I bought one for a 5hp dust collector at the start of this year for $170US and shipping was supposed to be $75 but I got them to take $25 off. Took about 2 weeks to get to my door. UPS I think.

    POWTRAN Technology

  10. #189
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    NZ
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    Is it possible to rewire a VSD for a different HP? There are several on Trademe but all are for high HP.

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/business-f...4678ec7b6f272e

  11. #190
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    Apr 2015
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    Brisbane
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    304

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    With an input voltage of 300-500 volts I guess it needs 3 phase input.

  12. #191
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintlock View Post
    Is it possible to rewire a VSD for a different HP? There are several on Trademe but all are for high HP.
    Not rewire, but reprogram, this is done by editing the current output parameter. However as Pete57 says the one in you link will require a 3Phase input.

    The other potential headache is their size as these will be quite large. OK if you have a big shed but not so good for most DIYers.

    One more thing to know about used VFDs is if they are more than a few years old and have been sitting around not being used they need to be "reconditioned" before full power use. This involves something like being used at 25% load for a few hours, then 50% load for a few hours and then 75% for a few hours. This allows the capacitors to get used to handling these current loads. Connecting a old unused VFD up to full load may result in a loud bang as one or more caps may blow.

  13. #192
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
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    I had a visitor to my shed last Saturday to use my iBox to help out with setting up his own. He is a member of a mid North Coast (NSW) men’s shed and, during the morning, he raised the subject of do I have 3 phase, what should the Mens Shed do etc and I pointed at the VFD and told the yarn AGAIN about the benefit to me of my VFD. His reply was that that some members of the Men Shed poo-pood the concept and added that “they don’t work anyway”
    I snorted that’s what happens when men get old, don’t keep up with technology AND play catch-up old-man politics in Men’s clubs! I felt a little guilty of my condemnation of SOME old men but my visitor then brought the house down by adding that, “if that was the case, it would rule out VFDs in his local Men’s Shed, the Bowls Club AND the Fishing Club
    I then started thinking about a single page flyer that any of us could print out and hand out in such situations. It would have to stress the need for qualified electricians etc but could go on to explain in lay terms the alternatives to 3 phase supply and/or the benefits of speed control and/or the benefits of soft start? I would be happy to draft one and put it back on the forum for comment?
    fletty
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  14. #193
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    That's been my experience as well. I visit a few mens shed to consult on dust making activities and have mentioned VFDs as a sort of throw away line about how to access 3P gear, not just for DCs but for other gear as well. Of the several dozen times I have done this only one shed I know of has followed up on VFDs and I think they only put one on their DC. Younger blokes are more likely to pick up on this idea but I don't mention it any more at mens sheds.

    Converts are slightly more likely to surface when they come around and visit my shed and see all VFD powered gear in action.

    I would be interested in seeing a draft one pager.

  15. #194
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    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    There are any number of explanations available but they all tend to get highly technical which I guess is understandable because they are highly technical pieces of equipment and keeping it simple for those who know nothing of them would be a good thing.
    CHRIS

  16. #195
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    Perth
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    While the electrical side of VFDs can be baffling it is only one side of installing VFDs. Several mates were interested but when I explained they would have to replace the single phase motor on their machine with a 3 Phase motor and that some metal work may be needed to fit the new motor/pulley etc they glazed over and it never happened.

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