Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 204
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,756

    Default

    Nice work on the glands Dan.

    Its probably legal but I wouldn't use mains coloured coded wiring on a control circuit like you have done. It will be confusing enough to a sparky let alone a newbie and I would hate to think of the consequences.

    Control circuits are low V (~10V) and very small currents some something like Cat5 cable is OK. Cat 5 also has multiple strands so a switch and a speed pot can be run through the same cable.

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    Cheers yeah it was just a case of using what I had on hand as I ran out of hook up leads. I'll be replacing all the leads with new stuff when I install the motor so I'll make sure I use different colour leads next time.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney Upper North Shore
    Posts
    4,464

    Default

    Thanks for the run down on the VFD Bob. Couldn't help myself - just ordered one
    I'm on the lookout for 3 phase gear so I reckon having a good VFD unit on hand, especially at that price, is a wise investment.

    Cheers

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Katoomba NSW
    Posts
    4,770

    Default

    I like your thinking Peter.
    Give me a yell if you need a hand.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    Thanks for the run down on the VFD Bob. Couldn't help myself - just ordered one
    I think I'll do the same - looks to be a considerably nicer unit than the Huanyang. If you like your drives, it's worth keeping an eye on Ebay for VFDs as decent ones pop up once in a while - I got an unused 2.2kW ABB ACS310 for $100 about a year ago.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    So say for instance I wanted to put a VFD on my lathe to allow digital speed control, with the Huanyang units I've seen it recommended to get a larger motor due to loss of power. If I went with a Powtran and had vector control would this still be necessary?

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    wairewa
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Nice work. I have been out of this for a while. Used Mitsubishi and Siemens variable drives in the 90 ties. Mitsubishi was unbreakable and very fast and stable. Lasted for ten yrs 24/7 before I got out. This stuff has become a lot cheaper nowadays. Keep following your posts.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,756

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bueller View Post
    So say for instance I wanted to put a VFD on my lathe to allow digital speed control, with the Huanyang units I've seen it recommended to get a larger motor due to loss of power. If I went with a Powtran and had vector control would this still be necessary?
    Correct.
    The effectiveness of Vector control depends on how well the VFD and the motor pair together. Vector control requires that the VFD tune itself to the motors characteristics. The motor parameters have to be entered correctly and the Vector control parameters set and there is usually some sort of tune up program that ends the runs the motor up and down the speed range to optimise the VFDs interactions with the motor. It's not always as easy to setup as you first think but I haven't tried it on the Powtran yet.

    Here is a graph showing torque virus s frequency for a 1HP motor.
    You can see the motor at 5Hz under vector control is generating slightly more than double the torque compared to the non vector control.
    At less than 5Hz it
    At 17Hz it's a bit less than double, and this continues according to this pattern up to 50z where it will be the same.

    TVF.jpg

    Of course you can always double the Hp of the motor AND use a vector control VFD
    Thats what I did on my MW lathe.

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    Okay cool yeah I'll probably stick with the original plan of a 2HP WEG and a Powtran as I know Vicmarc have the ribbed pulleys in that shaft size. Extra power always sounds good to me and the VL200 has a pretty decent sized work area on it so who knows what I'll be using it for in future.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
    Age
    74
    Posts
    3,576

    Default

    Case study 9: Secondhand 3 phase 3HP dust collector used on single phase supply.

    This case study, and the guidance from NCArcher and Chris Parks, first introduced many of us to the Powtran VFD .... and the current excellent sourcing via eBay.
    The background to this example is covered here...
    Fletty's new shed WIP ....or is it a retrospective??
    ..... and in post 779 in the same thread.
    Basically I wanted to upgrade my dust collection system to a 3HP DC with (mostly) 150mm diameter duct work. I purchased a secondhand 3 phase 3HP DC but the special shaft extension precluded replacement of the 3 phase motor with a standard single phase motor. I purchased the recommended Powtran VFD and today the installation was completed. NCArcher arrived as planned this morning and, after a cuppa, work commenced.
    My current 2HP (modified) DC was moved out of the new acoustic closet....

    image.jpeg

    The Powtran VFD and remote control were mounted on the outside wall...

    image.jpeg

    The new, much larger, 3HP unit was moved into the closet through the soundproof door and doorway made originally for the 2 HP unit. It was a tight squeeze but all went well.

    image.jpeg

    The location of the VFD and remote was driven by the shortest distance to the motor and to be clear of the soundproof door....

    image.jpeg

    I am am very pleased with the outcome. Because of the VFD, I now have a 3 HP DC system which is mostly ducted with 150mm diameter PVC. The DC is remotely operated although the gates are all manual. I haven't yet measured the internal and external noise levels but it is certainly no worse than the 2 HP and may even be quieter!
    In earlier posts and threads, my measurement of air flow has been criticised however it is all I have and I firmly believe that at least the relativity of the measurements is valid. Here is my journey over the last 2 years expressed in relative flow rates measured with the same equipment and mostly at the same 100 mm outlet close to the DC itself.

    image.jpeg
    2HP DC, 100 mm ducting, flow measured at 167 cfm
    2HP DC(modified), 150mm ducting but mostly 100mm connection to machines, flow measured at 535cfm
    3HP DC, running at 50Hz via VFD, 150mm ducting, flow measured at 865cfm
    3HP DC, running at 60Hz via VFD, 150mm ducting, flow measured at 999cfm (= off the scale!)
    So far, the 'downsides' are not deal breakers. The DC and impellor really howled at 60Hz and the VFD does hum when energised but idle.
    In more anecdotal terms, the 3HP DC when first turned on, drew sawdust and chips that had been left in all of the ducts and other nooks and crannies by the lower flow rates of the 2HP DC AND, when I checked the 150mm boom ..... it swallowed the safety glasses kept on a hook near the docking saw!

    Many thanks to Tony, Chris and Bob for advice and support.

    fletty
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,696

    Default

    Are you running this at 60hz Alan? It looks to 50hz in the photo.
    CHRIS

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
    Age
    74
    Posts
    3,576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Are you running this at 60hz Alan? It looks to 50hz in the photo.
    Hi Chris, I'm operating at 50Hz but it's nice to know that I have more up my sleeve if needed.
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,756

    Default

    Thanks for posting this fletty.

    One question.

    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    What's the box under the VFD - is that some kind of filter?

    Your comment " VFD does hum when energised but idle" reminded me I had measured the idle SPLs for all my VFDs the other day and I should post this.

    The measurements provided for each VFD is 1m from the VFD at head height above the floor.

    Shed background was 47dBA
    The 1HP VFD on the shed ventilator does not have a fan so it was the same as shed background.

    The HYs produced the following SPLs
    2HP VFDs on the WW lathe and DP, 55 and 56 dBA respectively
    2HP VFD inside the pedestal grinder (includes a 100mm 250V fan), 54dBA
    2HP VFD on the grinding station (includes a 250V relays that hums a bit) 61dBA.
    4HP VFD on BS; 58 dBS, 4HP on BS 56 dBA

    3HP Powtran 52 dBA
    2HP SAJ VFD 53 dBA

    Even without add ons like extra fans and relays, where the VFDs are located does affect their loudness and that's probably why they vary a bit.

    So the least noisy is the Powtran but it does not sound the quietest and that's probably because the frequency it emits is slightly irritating.

    If all the VFDs are on idle (and that can happen occasionally by the end of a shed session) the total power consumption is <75W so that's not going to break the bank.

    If all the VFD's are on idle and I'm standing at workbench one in the metal work area the SPL is 59dBA, while in the WW area (a bit further away from machines) it's 56 dBA.

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
    Age
    74
    Posts
    3,576

    Default

    The box under the VFD has a RF remote mounted on the cover and its operating relay inside the box. This little remote (30A rated, $26 ex China on eBay) has a working range of greater than 40 metres ..... as I found out this afternoon by standing under my neighbours nearest window turning the DC on and off to see if I could hear a difference?
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,756

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    The box under the VFD has a RF remote mounted on the cover and its operating relay inside the box. This little remote (30A rated, $26 ex China on eBay)
    Thanks for the info on this. Is it being used on the control side or the power supply side of the VFD?

    OK, it looks like this one, although the price is $15?
    AC 240V Far Distance High Power 30A Relay RF Wireless Remote Control Switch NEW | eBay

    I've seen a few of those remotes on eBay but it looks like it could another chinese "we tell you what you want to hear". Some have a fine print line in the description that says the 30A is "peak current" and if you look closely at the power rating they are rated at 3000W (or 12.5A @240V) and even then I wonder what the safety margin is.

    If it is being used on the power supply side, on a 3HP VFD with a soft start it should be Ok at 50Hz but I wonder what the current would be at 60Hz.

    This is what this one says.
    AC 240V Long Distance High Current 30A Relay RF Wireless Remote Control Switch | eBay
    Although the relay is marked 30A 240VAC. The 30A is for the peak current of your load. The rated current of your load should less than 15A)
    I also see there are some 50A (peak) with 30A continuous rating ($25) but they don't look like they would be anywhere near that rating
    AC 220V 50A Relay RF Remote Switch Motor Water pump Machine Power | eBay
    At first glance these 50A rated ones would seem safer for non-VFD users if they wanted to switch a 2 - 3HP DC remotely.
    However reading on it also says - maximum continuous power rating is 3000W????

    On the subject of 50 - 60Hz, what would be useful is a device that could sense sawdust in a system and automatically increase the VFD frequency when needed. A standard dust detector/sensor would be too sensitive but some sort of optical sensor might work.

Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. LVL install
    By extrajosh2 in forum TIMBER
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11th July 2011, 08:33 PM
  2. air con install
    By looney in forum PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, HEATING, COOLING, etc
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 16th July 2007, 01:25 PM
  3. How to install the new big TV
    By TEEJAY in forum HI FI EQUIPMENT
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 31st May 2007, 12:50 AM
  4. how to re-install XP
    By julianx in forum NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WOODWORK
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 15th June 2005, 12:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •