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  1. #91
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    Feb 2006
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    The only thing left to do is pull the motor apart and see if there is a Y connection - but somehow I doubt it.

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  3. #92
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    Oct 2013
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    Perth, Australia
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    Fair enough, looks like it's probably not worth the trouble. Hare and Forbes have at least said they'll let me return the motor so I might try calling into some motor places with the 3 phase motor in tow to see if they can identify a replacement.

    Thanks for your help!

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bueller View Post
    Fair enough, looks like it's probably not worth the trouble. Hare and Forbes have at least said they'll let me return the motor so I might try calling into some motor places with the 3 phase motor in tow to see if they can identify a replacement.

    Thanks for your help!
    jewanna bring it around and we'll crack it open for a final confirmation?

  5. #94
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    Might be worth a look if you don’t mind, you in the shed over the weekend?

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by bueller View Post
    Might be worth a look if you don’t mind, you in the shed over the weekend?
    Yep. Sat arvo onwards

  7. #96
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    Cool cheers mate I’ll send you a message in the morning.

  8. #97
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    769

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    I have JET dust extractor that has a 2hp 3ph motor which was 415V star connected. Finding and digging out the star point, separating the wires and running them out for 240V delta connection was pretty straightforward - hopefully it'll be similar for this bigger motor.

  9. #98
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I have JET dust extractor that has a 2hp 3ph motor which was 415V star connected. Finding and digging out the star point, separating the wires and running them out for 240V delta connection was pretty straightforward - hopefully it'll be similar for this bigger motor.

    I think this will be a delta connect but we'll find out.

  10. #99
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I got some more prices on VFDs from Powtran.
    The Mini or Budget / entry level 240V VFDs (PI160 models) with vector control
    1.5kW with no e-brake circuitry are US$73 (Model No, PI160 1R5G1
    The braking circuitry adds ~$5 onto the price (braked model numbers have a Z added to the end of them)
    Brake resistors cost US$7.
    Today I received a 1.5kW Mini PI160Z and some brake resistors.
    This time, delivery took 4 weeks because the resistors are not made by PowTran and had to come from another factory.
    Plus there was a two week factory shut down/holiday during that time.

    Below you can see the size of the 160 (top) compared to the equivalent power (1.5kW) HY underneath.
    The compactness is significant given its a full vector drive VFD

    IMG_2587.jpg

    Below is a photo of the 160 compared to an industrial strength PI930 2.2kW Powtran.
    The Al box in the middle is a brake resistor - this is used to slow the motor down more rapidly than the VFD can do it.

    IMG_2588.jpg

    I bought the 160 mainly to have a play with it and see what it can do but I might replace the 1.5kW HY on my DP with the 160 as it is a full vector drive and will further reduce the need to change belts especially at low speed.

    One of the brake resistors i for the RAS at the mens shed.

  11. #100
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    A couple more photos and observations.The mains power input for the 160 is at the top and the 3P output and brake terminals are underneath.There is only one earth point at the top so the 3P earth has to be taken off at that point - not so tidy.There are no provisions for cable glands etc so it assumes this type of unit will be mounted in and enclosure or away from prying hands.VFDTerminals.jpg

    The number of control connections is about half of those found on the more industrial P1930 but more than enough for basic machine operation. VFDTerminalscon.jpg

    The 160 manual is ~130 pages versus the ~180 for the 9130 but the font used in the 160 manual is correspondingly smaller so theres no lack of detailThe number and numbering of the Functional parameter subgroups are the same (means easier to modify once you learn one set)There are slightly fewer parameters in the 160 instruction set but once again more than enough for basic machine operations.VFDManuals.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #101
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Connected up the 160 and had a bit of a play with it and made a couple of comparisons and observations.

    The first thing is the super fast boot up time.
    It's so fast it's tricky to measure accurately but its somewhere between 2 and 3 seconds.
    Compare this to the PI9130 which is about somewhere between 4 and 5 seconds.and the the HY which is around 12 s.

    The long boot up time of the HYs means I tend to leave these on (with the machine turned off when not in use) while I'm in the shed, and only turn them off when l I leave the shed.
    However with the 160 you could turn them off unless you were sure you were going to repeated use the machine. There's probably a trade off between leaving them on all the time, and too many complete turn ons/offs.

    Programming etc is all straight forward identical to the P9130 and very similar to the HY.

    The brakes can be set to operate super fast (basically instantaneous) so will have to be careful in using them on threaded spindle type machines.

  13. #102
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,696

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    One small thing to note with drill presses and braking is that if a keyless chuck is being used then the chuck may unwind and the drill drop out. My gear head drill does it every time I turn it off if it is operating in high gear and I turn it off quickly, the torque reversal is that sudden. It is a good brand German chuck so the quality of the chuck is not in doubt.

    I'll try a second time to edit this after the forum website would not connect, end of rant but it is still an ongoing problem that annoys me.

    I had a mini on a DP and removed it because I realised that it was mounted away from the DP and presented access problems. I have since remote mounted a P1900 and run a cat 6 cable to the control pad on the DP. I have been harassing Powtran for some years off and on to put ethernet/wireless networking into VFD's but no go so far. This would allow Powtran or anyone who was asked to remote access the VFD and sort out issues and programming. A computer tablet app could also be available to program the VFD which should be way easier than using the control keyboard. I would not leave it on the network when needed if it were me to prevent unwanted changes occurring but it would simplify management of a VFD.

    Another often unrealised feature of Powtran VFD's and I have used this more than once is that a VFD can be programmed, that program uploaded to the control panel then that control panel put into another VFD and the program uploaded to the VFD. This simplifies trouble shooting but not as good as networking would. I would advise anyone using a Powtran to upload the program to the keyboard and leave it there. If the VFD dies for any reason there is a good chance the keyboard could be used to upload the program into another unit saving a fair bit of hassle in some cases.
    CHRIS

  14. #103
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    Managed to find some quiet time at the men's shed and tried out the VFD and brake on the RAS.

    Without any VFD the RAS blade currently coasts for over 120 s before it stops. The first 20s or so are not so bad because you can clearly hear it turning but after that it gets quieter and quieter and eventually it is silent which is extremely dangerous. Even without using the braking resistor the VFD was able to stop the blade in a deceleration time of 10s without any over voltage errors. Using the VFD and the brake I was able to go as low as 3 s but it sounded a bit rough (a loud CLUNK!) so I backed it off to 4s.

    Going on what Chris said above I tried to find out what a minimum brake time for an RAS was and did read on the web a recommendation of 8 seconds. I stopped and started the RAS about a dozen times using the 4s Brake time and there's not even a hint of the blade coming loose. It is a pretty chunky nut holding the blade on - much bigger than any TS nut I have seen.

    Now I have to package and install all the bits and pieces - the often takes as much time as setting up the VFD itself.

  15. #104
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    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    European table saws have the blades on pins to prevent the blade trying to undo the nut when the brake is applied. Minimum stop time would vary with blade size, a 300mm blade takes some stopping from operating speed.
    CHRIS

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    European table saws have the blades on pins to prevent the blade trying to undo the nut when the brake is applied. Minimum stop time would vary with blade size, a 300mm blade takes some stopping from operating speed.
    Thanks Chris. 3 of my TS blades have the holes for those pins and I guessed that would be what they are for.

    I finally got around to installing the VFD and brake on the RAS today. I had to remove the VFD and brake from the RAS after the first trial as I needed to fit the VFD in a more secure/safe spot and wire up a new start/stop switch, and also get sign off from the shed sparky for the final wiring and he has been unavailable up until today.

    The VFD and brake are now tucked away up under the RAS table and the start/stop switch is on top of the motor just above the operators handle. Wiring up the VFD under the table laying on my back was far from pleasant and having to get up and down off the concrete floor multiple times has left me somewhat weary.

    After I finished the Sparky checked the wiring and gave it the thumbs up and it works like a charm.

    I also added a DC vacuum switch into the system so the saw will not start unless its gate valve is open and the DC is running.

    Then we called all the members together and had a tutorial on how to operate the saw.

    I still don't consider it as the safest of machinery but it is now a fair bit safer than it was before.

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