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Thread: I got zapped

  1. #16
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    It's worth mentioning that an RCD will not provide any protection if you get zapped between active and neutral. Good luck with it and stay safe.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Willson View Post
    I will also try to find a big red switch that cuts both legs of the input power.
    I would have thought that this was the standard way to do it; not have one cut and one not cut. . . . . .
    After repairing / updating the switch gear on about a dozen (older) machines at the mens shed I can assure you that while it is standard, unfortunately it's not what actually takes place, especially if DIY folks are involved Two machines that had newer plugs installed BUT the neutral and live connections had been swapped so it was the neutral only that was was being switched! This is why it is absolutely essential to remove the plug from the wall socket.

    If you are still getting zapped, I'd be looking to make sure charged caps are not the source and take appropriate action to discharge them (i.e. not by direct shorting)

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritonitis View Post
    It's worth mentioning that an RCD will not provide any protection if you get zapped between active and neutral. Good luck with it and stay safe.

    .
    In theory true but there is inevitably some leakage to earth so it will likely trip.

    John

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexm1 View Post
    .... working on a machine that is still plugged in is asking for trouble.
    Yup, unless you are taking measurements on it for faultfinding.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers View Post
    Yup, unless you are taking measurements on it for faultfinding.
    I would assume if that were the case you would have enough knowledge to stay out of trouble.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexm1 View Post
    I would assume if that were the case you would have enough knowledge to stay out of trouble.
    Cliff stay out of trouble......

    I'm curious as to how you managed to make contact with a live terminal. What exactly did you touch?

    And just as a cautionary note, I'm an electrician and have worked in the industry for over 30 years. Every place I have worked, whether government or private has a policy of monitoring in hospital following an electric shock, no matter how minor. Delayed fatal arrhythmia can be a consequence of electric shock and can only be ruled out by monitoring with an ECG. It's not common and may only be of concern to people who have a pre existing heart condition of some kind but nobody (employers) wants to take that chance. Not saying you should head off to hospital Bob but anybody who has a heart condition (of any kind) who receives an electric shock should seek medical advice.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    I'm curious as to how you managed to make contact with a live terminal. What exactly did you touch?
    The power supply had a plug in the front of it where the power enters the PSU. I pulled on the plug and my fingers must have managed to complete a circuit. this was despite the emergency power switch having been activated. This would not have happened if the switch broke both active and neutral wires.

    I have been looking at switches that break both and they seem to start at about $50/$60 each. The single break ones start at about $2.40 from China.
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Willson View Post
    I have been looking at switches that break both and they seem to start at about $50/$60 each. The single break ones start at about $2.40 from China.
    Bob that link doesn't work for me. Can you please repost or state your current requirements.
    I found that some chinese switches are OK but some are dodgy as.
    Also you may want to consider using a "No Volt" or latching type switch.

  10. #24
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    The item you're looking for is a double pole switch. A switch, however, is not an effective isolation. You shouldn't rely on something you can't see. The internal mechanism could stick in the on position even though you have operated the switch and you wouldn't know until you got a shock. Only count on a physical break in the circuit that you can see like removing the plug from the wall socket. And always test before you touch.
    Electrical preaching over. Carry on.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    Cliff stay out of trouble...........
    It follows me around like a lost puppy.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    And just as a cautionary note, I'm an electrician and have worked in the industry for over 30 years. Every place I have worked, whether government or private has a policy of monitoring in hospital following an electric shock, no matter how minor. Delayed fatal arrhythmia can be a consequence of electric shock and can only be ruled out by monitoring with an ECG. It's not common and may only be of concern to people who have a pre existing heart condition of some kind but nobody (employers) wants to take that chance. Not saying you should head off to hospital Bob but anybody who has a heart condition (of any kind) who receives an electric shock should seek medical advice.
    I was at a public event at the Perth Town Hall when a large 3 Phase coffee machine had a problem and an unqualified, over confident member of the public decided to have a go at fixing it and zapped himself. Luckily he was not fried, and he even appeared OK immediately afterwards and sat down over at the side of the hall for half an hour or so when I noticed he was not acting normal. I suggested to the event organisers that they organise to take him to hospital but the zapped bloke refused and before we knew it he had disappeared.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I suggested to the event organisers that they organise to take him to hospital but the zapped bloke refused and before we knew it he had disappeared.
    What do you mean? He turned invisible or something?

    The link was to aliexpress.com and then do a search for 'emergency stop switch' One of the first items that comes up is a switch for $2.35

    ooooh I think I have found a switch that is 2 x NC. It is: Mushroom head button switch ANE-22with light LED emergency stop button(Mounting hole 22 25mm)(DC 6/12/24/36/48 V AC110/220/380V) Bugga, just noticed that it isn't. Still 1 x NC & 1 x NO

    There is another very pretty switch, but again, it 1 x NO and 1 X NC: ONPOW 19mm 1NO+1NC emergency stop Push button switch (LAS1-BGQ-11TS) CE, ROHS



    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    The item you're looking for is a double pole switch. A switch, however, is not an effective isolation. You shouldn't rely on something you can't see. The internal mechanism could stick in the on position even though you have operated the switch and you wouldn't know until you got a shock. Only count on a physical break in the circuit that you can see like removing the plug from the wall socket. And always test before you touch.
    Electrical preaching over. Carry on.
    That is good advice, but I still need an emergency stop that breaks both wires
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  14. #28
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    Had a mate who got zapped with 3 phase.
    He appeared to be ok but then dropped dead.

    I have a multimeter that flashed a red led if it is placed near a live cct.
    You don't even need to make contact.
    Very useful.
    Agree with the comment that the safest switch is the end of the cord unplugged and in sight.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Willson View Post
    What do you mean? He turned invisible or something?
    The place was packed with hundreds of people and he just melted (ha-ha) into the crowd.

    The link was to aliexpress.com and then do a search for 'emergency stop switch' One of the first items that comes up is a switch for $2.35
    ooooh I think I have found a switch that is 2 x NC. It is: Mushroom head button switch ANE-22with light LED emergency stop button(Mounting hole 22 25mm)(DC 6/12/24/36/48 V AC110/220/380V) Bugga, just noticed that it isn't. Still 1 x NC & 1 x NO
    There is another very pretty switch, but again, it 1 x NO and 1 X NC: ONPOW 19mm 1NO+1NC emergency stop Push button switch (LAS1-BGQ-11TS) CE, ROHS
    That is good advice, but I still need an emergency stop that breaks both wires
    I bought some of those $2 eBay and A/Exp switches and they look and feel like POS and I would not trust them for a second

    This is the sort of thing I use on most gear I rewire.
    If the power fails they don't automatically reconnect the power without manually activating the switch again,
    3251-20-01 | Push Button Switch, DPST, Flange, On-Off | EICHOFF
    They cost more double the similar quality ones on ebay/Ax ones but hopefully the RS ones are more reliable.
    But nothing beats physically removing the plug from the mains.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
    Had a mate who got zapped with 3 phase.
    He appeared to be ok but then dropped dead.
    At work we had gear up to 100kV (also a small linear accelerator that got up to 2 MV but no one was allowed in the room when that was turned on) that a restricted set of blokes would occasionally need to work on and a few more that worked on 240V. There were a few guys zapped in the 1970's and the problem was they did not usually report because they didn't want to get into trouble. In 1978 as a post grad student the gear in our lab was up too 10kV and I got a 6kV DC boot across the tip of my ring finger to the palm of my hand that threw me across the lab. I was lucky most of the current probably dissipated through the palm. Neither the techo or the Prof I was working reported this.

    When I became a staff member I remember it took some f effort to convince staff they would not get into trouble for reporting these events so a few reports started coming in. By 1990 mains and higher V electrical work was restricted to a handful of experienced individuals, and we also installed and purchased more gear with better interlocks, lower current limiters, RCDs etc that the number of reports fell away quickly after that. In fact I don't recall one during my 9 years as head of department.

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