Thread: No. 9 Gauge Saw redux

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Hi Peter,

Whatever suits you. I'm not fussy about such things, it's just the Internets...
Beautiful vise and anvil rig. If I wouldn't likely drown swimming home with it I'd try to talk you out of it.

Cheers,
Rob

There's a little story about the vice .... my friend Matty (L.S.Barker1970) introduced me to the seller, and there were two of these vices there, and as the "expert" I was being asked what my offer was on everything. Until then I hadn't seen any like them, except for some bench-top types in gun making workshops, so was offering up the lowish dealer price on a blacksmith vice. Matty was there, but apparently uninterested, and if I remember rightly he probably had his head in a WW machine catalogue that had just been gifted to him ..... And I was getting into his face, saying, Matty you NEED one of these, and he shrugged, and said, aw ... I don't know .... NO MATTY, YOU NEED this !!!!

Had dinner with him last night, and we were giggling like school girls about paying less than $100 each for them.
Matty already got the large Robinson named anvil, so I grabbed the pair of little anvils for the hand saws.
One is now in my Jewellery workshop slowly getting a gold plated top. hehehe.

I think these were pretty much abandoned when the hand saw sharpener in the business retired 30 or more years ago.

I've only ever seen a third vice like them, and Rob (Auscab) found that one, it was a garden ornament out the front of a saw doctor's workshop.

If you ever find yourself in the southern half of the globe, shout-out early.
Not long ago I got a note from an email corespondent from Scotland, telling me he was going to be in Melbourne very soon, woops....the same time I was going to be in New Zealand, and I was back in Aust the same time he was in NZ.

Here are the hammers I didn't sell.
Some are for band and circular saw blades, but I believe the smaller ones were used with the handsaw kit.


Cheers,
Peter

Just my 2 cents. If I were going to be cutting a lot of dados for shelves back then, that saw would certainly speed things up. Obviously the No 4 handle did not originally belong to that saw. Considered making one, but never got around to it.

Interesting set of hammers Peter. Do you know the purpose that those with the chisel like faces served?

I decided to phosphate black the back of the steel backed No. 9 blade pictured above.

Phosphating is a simple process, Fe + H₃PO₄ + MnO₂ --> Fe₃(PO₄)₂ + Mn₃(PO₄)₂. Manganese dioxide ($17/5 lb. shipped) and 85% phosphoric acid ($50/1 gal shipped) are inexpensive and readily available.

The recipe is: ~50 ml H₃PO₄, ~20 gr MnO₂ in 2l distilled water. Distilled water is important, tap water will give a blotchy finish. Mix, bring to a boil and add parts to be phosphated. Boil until sufficiently blackened, wash thoroughly with water, blow dry with compressed air and seal with BLO.

phosphating bath 1.jpg

This is the appearance after about 30 minutes.

phosphating bath 2.jpg

And here it is after application of BLO.

No 9 blade wiht phosphated back.jpg

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Interesting set of hammers Peter. Do you know the purpose that those with the chisel like faces served?

Hi Rob,
They are a bit of a mystery. I've always wondered about them.
I can't see a way they would be used on the plate of a circular saw, or a wide bandsaw blade without bringing a load of stress concentration points/cuts in the surface of the metal, and that would be disastrous. It may be possible, but I think unlikely.
The only use I can imagine is with a special shaped anvil to apply set to the teeth on a large blades on setting jigs.
All the literature I have doesn't record them.

There is a working saw doctor I know, but I see him rarely.
Next time I see him I'll quiz him.

Cheers,
Peter

Thanks Peter,

As part of my yet-to-be-begun study of saw setting methods I acquired these Japanese style setting hammers.

Japanese saw setting hammers.jpg

These should be just the trick for saws > 10ppi or so and may be especially useful given the present mania for high tooth counts.

I'm also planning the manufacture of tensioning (round face) and straightening (diagonal peen) hammers. Pursuant to this goal I've ordered some 4140 stock to begin work - should be a nice complement to my saws.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob

This is an extract from 1875 Disston publications:

1875 The HandSaw.jpg

It may be a little difficult to read the text, but the purpose is stated the same as for the No.14

Disston No.14.png

Regards
Paul

Paul,

Perfect, thanks. It's very nice to have an advertisement that is contemporary to the original saw that I have proving that it's configuration is fully consistent with the original. The engraving however shows a scalloped profile on the gauge, I've never seen the like.

Disston Gauge Saw advertisment No 9 detailed image.JPGDisston No 9 gauge saw.jpg



If I'm reading it correctly this is the pertinent text.

“The engravings on this page represent our patent Gauge Saw which is an invaluable improvement where fixed and definite depth of cut is required. For Tenoning, Shouldering, Dovetailing, Carving, Cog-Cutting, etc. it is just the tool. We manufacture them in both Hand and Back-Saws. Remove the gauge from the Hand-Saw and it can be used for any of the purposes to which a Hand-Saw is adapted.”

Where did you find the advert?

Over the years I've encountered two No. 9 gauge saws, one with a left handed Regan patent handle and one with the right handed handle. I've seen a number of three screw No. 4's with Regan handles, two reside in my collection - one small and one large.
I think that buyers of the day (late 19th and early 20th) could specify the configuration desired and that there are likely a number of unusual variants out there.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob

The picture comes from one of Disston's publications. I will have a look through some catalogues that I have on a CD as I think that picture was repeated in more than one. I will post what I find tonight.

Regards
Paul

Rob

That gauge back saw appeared in a couple of 1875 publications, The Handsaw and Disston saw catalogue.

This may be a better reproduction:

Disston 1875 Gauge saws.jpg

I was surprised to see two no-set models also:

Disston No set hand and back saw 1875.jpg

This pre-dated the No.77 and the ACME 120 No-set models.

I think you queried the "X" that appeared under the handle. My understanding is that the No.12 saw always had an "X" under the handle and certainly those I have feature this mark. It stood for Extra Refined spring steel.

The No.9 shared quite a few features with the No.12 including the Extra refined spring steel. Possibly they too had the "X" mark.

I have these catalogues on a CD, which is why they took a while to find.

Regards
paul

Paul,

Interesting what you can find if you look isn't it? The popular assumption up to this point has been that the ogee toed No. 9 saws all had Regan handles, now we know that wasn't the case. Regan handles appear on No. 9 and No.4 backsaws and D8/D-8 handsaws, mostly ripsaws.

The No. 8 I have has the X. I'll start keeping track as I know I've seen it on other saws in my stash. I've acquired a number of saws, including a No. 7 that bears the same medallion as the No. 8, since my initial survey of saw plate hardness and I plan to do more work in this area.

The early no-set saws are also a new wrinkle. I wonder if they were specially marked in the way that the No. 77 and Acme saws were?

Is the CD you have commercially available?

Cheers,
Rob

Rob

I have two CDs on Disston catalogues and publications:

The first is called "Disston Catalog Collection." It is still available:

1875 to 1953 Disston Catalog Collection Saws and Handtools on DVD | eBay

The second is called "Disston tools, books and catalogs," but I can't find a listing for it anymore. There is a big duplication between the two CDs. There is quite a deal of repetition in the first CD as some of the publications are virtually the same, but it is cheap enough and there is some good information.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the references. I found the second here: DISSTON antique tools and saws books and catalogs collection on CD | ebookscd. Which do you think is the most informative?

Cheers,
Rob

Rob

That is exactly the second one I was looking for. I would go for the first CD, "Disston catalog collection." There is more on it and it's cheaper.

I'm afraid I start looking at all the other CDs to see what else I never realised I needed. Sometimes there are bonus CDs of your choice if you buy three for example. I haven't looked to see if that is an option. I daren't!

Regards
Paul