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  1. #1
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    Default No. 9 Gauge Saw redux

    I bought this Disston No. 9 saw equipped with the optional gauge a couple of months back. This particular saw was made, best I can tell, some time around 1877-1879 or so. It has a taper ground 0.025" blade toothed 12 ppi filed crosscut with a 16" toothline. It appears that all of the hardware is original or at least of the correct period.





    Here's a closeup of the medallion for the aficionado's.




    I decided to recreate this saw so today I knocked out a batch of blades and the gauge attachment. Here's the original and my blade with hardware and gauge.




    And the other side.




    The back will be heavy brass and I'll likely tooth this blade at 13 ppi. The blade, like the original, is 0.025" taper ground.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

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  3. #2
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    Default

    I got the back shaped and assembled to the blade today - next for teeth.



    While I was at it I put backs on several more blades. All of these are taper ground, the backsaws are all 0.025" plates. The other blades will also be fitted with backs today.

    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  4. #3
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    I have not seen one of these before. Thank you for sharing and making one.

  5. #4
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    Default Busy day

    I got the above blade toothed. First is the above blade toothed 13ppi with 8o rake. Above it is another blade but with a steel back that I'll blue or phosphatize. It is toothed 12 ppi as is the original with 8o rake.




    Since I had all of the equipment out I made up as many blades as I had daylight for.

    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  6. #5
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    Melbourne
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    Nice work Rob
    I wish international post was cheaper.
    You don't fancy a sea change do you
    I hear were really nice well most of us lol

  7. #6
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    Default

    Interesting saw thanks for sharing Rob

  8. #7
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    May 2008
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    Australia
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    Rob. You and Ron Bontz are the only members still posting their saw making work on this aussie forum. Look forward to reading your future posts.

    Stewie;

  9. #8
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    Jun 2014
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    Seattle, Washington, USA
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    Rob,

    That's gotta be one of the coolest Disston backsaws I've seen. You've done a good job of recreating it conceptually. Excited to see the completed saw.

    Keep up the good work!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Melbourne
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    That's a Nic saw Rob. Do you know it's original purpose with the depth stop? Is it just for cutting cheeks on tennons?
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  11. #10
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    Sydney
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    Hi Rob, nice work
    That is an interesting saw. I usually associate the No 9 backsaw with the Reagan handle (with the thumb notch)
    Looking at the shape of the end of the spine, I wonder if it started life as a miter saw prior to being user modified? Either way the mods look very old and very well done.
    image.jpeg

  12. #11
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    Hiroller. I have doubts the handle on Robs saw is original looking at the wear pattern surrounding the current handle.

    Stewie;

  13. #12
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    I really don't understand the purpose of the No. 9 I have. It has a depth stop suggesting tenon work. The saw is really too big to be considered a dovetail saw (The gauge would be best used on a dovetail saw IMO - stay tuned...). The depth stop is mounted such that it only allows a depth of cut of 1 inch. It's filed crosscut. All of this suggests the possibility that this saw is intended for cutting tenon shoulders. Was it at one time paired with a similar saw filed rip for cutting the tenon cheeks?

    As to the Regan handle it appears that, like many Disston products, the customer could specify the configuration that they wanted. This is the only No. 9 I've come across that has the 'standard' style handle. I've taken the handle off of the No. 9 and the bright finish on the blade continues uniformly into the covered area and the saw bolt holes appear to have never been modified. Could the handle be non original? I don't know for sure but it certainly looks like it hasn't been changed. The current handle fits perfectly and none of the parts show any signs of non-factory fitting work. Though the saw is aged it looks like it has seen very little use.

    Regan handles appeared on other saws too. This is a No. 4 with the small Regan handle. The blade is 12". The medallion suggests that this saw is a contemporary of the No. 9 gauge saw.

    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  14. #13
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    Here's the No. 9 blade with the handle off. Screw holes look good and the shadow from the handle doesn't look inconsistent with this handle being the original.




    The fitting of the handle to the back and blade is very tight.



    No 9 gauge saw with handle off 3.jpg


    As you can see, apart from the over-cut blade slot the fitting of the handle to the back/blade is excellent. Was the deeper blade slot done to provide additional room for the handle cheeks to flex and grip the blade better?

    The screws were made from castings.






    The shanks of the screws are about #8 in size and are really rough - more like chewed than machined.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Nice work Rob
    I wish international post was cheaper.
    You don't fancy a sea change do you
    I hear were really nice well most of us lol
    Hi Matt,

    The primary reason that I post here is that I like the way people behave on this forum. The second reason is that it's a quite active forum.
    We have been planning a trip south of the equator, don't know when it's going to happen but the Missus wants to visit Peru. At this point the closest we've been to Australia is circuit we made including Singapore, Thailand, China, Japan and Nepal several years back.
    Shipping everywhere is expensive. USPS domestic just went up ~20% for small packages. The 20lb international box isn't too bad (~$75US) if you fill it full, I could probably get a thousand saw screws in it.
    Mebee if I can wangle a trip down that way I'll load up my case with 20kg of saw stuff...

    Cheers,
    Rob
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  16. #15
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    The screws on the No. 4 with Regan handle are identical in design to the screws on the No. 9.




    The medallion of the No. 4 is interesting because it has the large A at the end of the 'PHILADA' abbreviation, no stars, a period after 'H' and after 'DISSTON' and all of the letters are sans-serif. The keystone outline is made with two parallel lines, not the reeded line of the 1871-1874 medallions.




    The screws of both the No. 4 and No. 9 are of the August 29, 1876 patent design with cap screws (Figures 2 and 3 below), not split nuts. US Patent: 181,648 - Improvement in Securing Saw-Handles to Blades




    The No. 9 medallion also has a double-line keystone border design and sans-serif characters, a period after 'H', none after 'DISSTON' and one star between 'H. DISSTON' and 'PHILADA' and an apostrophe in 'PHILAD'A', (1876-1878) . However it has a period after 'SONS' is an element of the 1874-1875 design discussed on the Disstonian medallion page (Online Reference of Disston Saws -- The Medallions).

    No 9 gauge saw medallion close up.jpg


    The stamps on the backs of the saws are very similar. The No. 4:




    And the No. 9:



    Both sets of marks are identical in style with the font of the characters on the No. 9 saw being somewhat larger than those on the No. 4. Interestingly, the L of the 'CAST STEEL' stamp on the back of the No. 4 is inverted - anybody have any information? The No. 9 also has a period between the words 'CAST' and 'STEEL' with a little extra space included so I don't think that it's a rust pit. It's also clear that each imprint was done with an individual stamp or die as the spacings and relative positions of the imprints vary quite a bit.

    So, overall it's a bit of a muddle. The mechanical design of the screw argues for late 1876 or newer for both saws. The imprint on the medallion of the No. 4 is consistent with this dating. The No. 9 however has some features of the 1874/5 medallions with the 1876 mechanical design (patent application date January 21, 1876). US patent law allows for products to me marketed as 'Patent Pending' or "Patent Applied For' so does suggest that this medallion could have been made in the period from January 1876 to August 1876? Another possibility is that an old mould was used in 1876/7 or medallion cast and used before the issue of the August 1876 screw patent? Replacements at a later date? Was the handle of the No. 9 a pre-Regan patent installation (The Regan handle saw patent was issued December 8 of 1874 and amazingly enough was applied for in November 14 of 1874 - some things moved faster then! THREE weeks to get a patent! Amazing!) - possible but the screw design argues for 1876+ despite the fact that some of the text features are consistent with an 1875 medallion. The patina of the No. 9 does not suggest that the handle was changed. We know Disston allowed customers to design their saws to a certain degree as the Regan handle was an option on the No. 4 and the depth gauge could be fitted to any saw (Mint Disston Gauge Saw) so my conclusion is that the non-Regan handle on the No. 9 was probably specified by the purchaser or perhaps stockist.

    Who knows? I think I'll mark the saws I'm building "140th Anniversary Edition" or "1876-2016" or some such.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

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