Thread: Saw File Hardness Measurements

Hi Brett,

I bought three dozen + 2 files, they also make auger files, and the whole package shipped for ~$36US. Their online shipping calculator assessed the mass of the package as being in the ~$50US category at the time of my order but within 24 hours the Corradi folks sent me a refund because the calculation turned out to be incorrect. The files were relatively expensive compared to what I typically like to pay but the needle files show signs of being very cost effective despite their price.

Cheers,
Rob

I see. Looks like the minimum charge accounts for quite a few files before it goes up.

I'm planning a box each of the O and OO cut needle files for my next order.

I just read the entire thread. I haven't sharpened any saws with a file for a long time, but the approach of the tests and the stats were very interesting.
Most of my filing is of steel in the soft state (mild steel) or cast iron, where files last a lot longer than on saws, but poor quality files (most currently manufactured ones) are still a great nuiscance.
So here are my 'rarely filing' thoughts:
Files have been made by the same or similar processes out the same or similar material for hudreds of years.
What if someone made files out of more contemporary materials like - say - M2 (HSS) or even M35 (cobalt bearing HSS)? One could extend those thoughts to tungsten carbide or even ceramics..... There are even options for diamond coated files I would think (needle files are already available in the latter material) I don't mean diamond coated flat steel, but diamond coated toothed files.
HSS is not difficult to machine soft (though I don't know that for sure about M35). Maybe the process needs to be different to file etching, for example milling.... I would tackle that on a shaper, by the way, set to advance the workpiece by the pitch of the theeth for each stroke....
Tungsten carbide would have to be EDM wire-cut, I imagine and ceramics would have to be molded in manufacture. None of these are technical problems with todays fast CNC machines.
Your thoughts would interest me!

Joe, my thoughts are, that super-duper high-tech files might be luverly (so long as they were cost-effective), but I'd be just as happy with decent, ordinary saw files made from more 'standard' materials, but made properly!

There is no question in my mind that the poor quality of the files we are getting now is due to either poor quality base materials, or poor control of manufacturing processes, or most likely, both! When I struck the first dud files I was prepared to accept that my image of files past was tainted by the rose-tinting in the retrospectoscope lenses, and maybe the files of yesteryear weren't as good as I remembered. But there is just too much corroboration from other saw filers, and some of the files I've had lately are just too bad to excuse as the odd escapee from QC. The occasional NOS Wiltshires & Nicholsons that dribble my way also confirm that once upon a time, manufacturers could make a file that would sharpen a whole saw, without shedding half its corners or wearing dead smooth after 5 or 6 strokes. Surely with all of the sophisticated monitoring equipment available now, someone with the will to turn out a good product could do it easily, without adding too severely to the cost!??

Cheers,

Joe and Ian,

I think that the decrease in file quality is just one more disappointing characteristic of modern business. There's likely too little demand for high quality files in general and saw sharpening files in particular for the manufacturers to care much. Nicholson mass-market files are still pretty expensive, even if you buy a full box, but the durability is terrible when they're used to work hard materials. I'm pretty sure that the business analysis goes something like "There's not much money to be made in making good saw files so why should we?". There's always room for technological improvements but those improvements are driven by profits, lower profits = not much incentive to innovate.

The Corinox files I discussed above are not much more expensive (+30%) than are new Nicholson's but the performance of the Corinox files is vastly superior. Three saws sharpened and no visible signs of wear, even under magnification. No, I don't have any stake in Corradi or their Corinox files. Try one, you'll like it. They make Corinox files in mechanics sizes too.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

......The Corinox files I discussed above are not much more expensive (+30%) than are new Nicholson's but the performance the Corinox files is vastly superior......

Rob, I would go out & buy Corradis on your commendation, right now, but it's just not easy to get your hands on any, down here!

I totally agree with your analysis. Some of us may be calling loudly for decent files, but too few voices to be heard above the clamour of modern business. I just gotta get hold of some Corradis....

Cheers,

Ian,

I need to be wrapping up my study of files and part of that is shipping the test files back to Brett. I'm also going to order some more Corradi files in the next month or so. If you like some can be included in the package or maybe a group buy can be arranged.

Cheers,
Rob

Yes, that will work Rob. Ian can send me his dough and I can Paypal you, send the files to my CA address and I'll get them to Ian. That should lessen the freight cost from Italy too.

The Corinox files sound like they have a coating like the Val Titan range from Vallorbe (also rebadged for F.Dick and probably others). Perhaps they were designed for STainless Steel use (Inox).

Ian, here is the Corradi shop:
CORINOX® Needle Files - Corradi Shop, High quality files and rasps

OK, PM on it's way to you, Brett...

Using my Fowler optical comparator both the 4" and 4.5" Iridium files have ~0.4mm wide apices. The 4" file is 0.182" across the flat at the widest point. It is 0.182" wide from the tang end to approximately 7/8" from the tip.The 4.5" file is 0.220" across the flat and begins to taper 2.25" from the tip.

4.55 Iridium dest file 3.jpg

4.55 Iridium dest file 2.jpg

4.55 Iridium dest file 1.jpg

4.0 Iridium dest 3.jpg

4.0 Iridium dest 2.jpg

4.0 Iridium dest 1.jpg

Rob
Do you ever sleep
Your energy for saws is amazing
Why don't you drop in on the saw sharping class I'm running
( free food)
Cheers Matt