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Thread: Hardening of sawplates
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12th September 2017, 03:15 AM #331GOLD MEMBER
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I think we're in the same range on hammering. I think it's all feel, though (which is nice, because we don't have to overthink it then).
I don't have any mcparlin saws that I want to sacrifice (I have three of them, but I like them, and i've ground the surface off of the third, so that one is worthless for testing, anyway), but I'd say they're a couple of clicks harder than a disston.
I haven't viewed your data set in a while, and don't necessarily want to wade into it, but figured disstons to be in the 47-52 range that I've filed. Anything harder, even at the top of that range, makes the file teeth shiny awfully fast.
I did have a defective one that was entirely straw temper in color, just a regular #7. Someone else tried to file it. Then I did, too. It almost filed with a double cut simonds USA triangular file (something I got by accident and didn't care about wasting a few), but I eventually threw it in the trash. No clue what the point of the saw was or how it made it out into the general public. Someone used it (crosscut saw) until the points on the teeth were very round. I got most of the roundness off of the teeth with double cut files, but not quite, realized that life is short. If you'd have been testing saws, I'd have sent it to you - I'll bet it was upper 50s.
Never filed an acme.
Never filed another disston that went through more than one file for what this woodrough did with 3 files. Two of the three that I have are like this, the third is a little softer but not what you typically perceive from a disston saw.
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12th September 2017, 06:29 AM #332
The blue New Age hardness tester I pictured above makes a barely visible mark, not the large and easy to see indents made by the standard 150kgf instruments.
The softest saw I've ever tested was a relatively modern Footprint branded back saw that was sent to me for sharpening at HRC ~34 if I remember right.
All of the Disston No. 12 saws I've tested regardless of manufacture date are an HRC point or two harder than the average. Surprisingly the Nest-o-saws blades also tend to be harder than the average. Somewhat puzzling because the keyhole saws aren't harder. The Acme 120's are all over the place, some harder and some much softer than average.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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20th October 2017, 11:19 AM #333
Disston Stainless Steel Handsaws D-55 and DS-126
I had the good fortune to pick up two Disston stainless steel bladed handsaws recently for very reasonable prices considering their collector appeal (https://www.jimbodetools.com/product...hand-saw-56484).
The first is the better known D-55.
This saw is marked as being manufactured in Philadelphia with the HK Porter era style markings . It has a Disston USA medallion in aluminum. The screws appear to be nickel plated steel. The toothline is 26-3/16", OAL is 29.5". The plate is 0.0345" thick at the toothline and only tapers to 0.0305" at the back mid way between the heel and toe. It's toothed 10 PPI and the mass is 644.7gm. The overall shape of the blade is reminiscent of the D-95 saws with heel and toe edges perpendicular to the toothline.
The second saw is a DS-126. I'd never heard or read of this model but there are some scattered listings of sales referencing the model number on Google search.
This saw is 26-1/8" at the toothline, OAL is 29-3/8". This saw is marked Philadelphia and has Disston written in the HK Porter period font on the blade. The medallion is an aluminum Disston USA and the screws also appear to be nickel plated steel. It's toothed 8 PPI and the plate is 0.0420" at the toothline and tapers to 0.0340" at the midpoint of the back. Mass is 795.9 gm. The plate on this saw is taller at the toe than is the DS-55 and it has the characteristic scalloped edge seen on saws such as the D-8. The heel also has a profile similar to the D-8 / D-2X type saws.
Hardness testing next...Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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20th October 2017, 01:54 PM #334
Rob
First up I thought you had described the model number incorrectly, but I realised the stainless saws I had seen were from the Disston ownership period and are just designated D-55 like this:
Disston D-55.jpgDiddton D-55 handle.jpg
These are from the Disstonian Institute.
Online Reference of Disston Saws -- Gallery
The "S" addition is presumeably for "stainless."
I have a single stainless saw made by Craftsman. I bought it purely out of curiosity.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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20th October 2017, 02:15 PM #335
My mistake, the S was incorrectly applied to the D-55. The DS-126 is correct as it is in the etch. I'll try for better photo's after I clean them up.
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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21st October 2017, 09:48 AM #336
Here's the results of hardness testing of the stainless saws shown above.
Contrary to scuttlebutt on the internet the stainless saws are not significantly softer than average.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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21st October 2017, 10:59 AM #337
My impression is that the original objection to stainless steel for cutting tools was that in the early days stainless steel would not hold an edge well. I know that butchers, for example,avoided stainless steel because of this factor. However, that is not true today and at some point the metallurgy must have developed so that stainless would take and hold a good edge.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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21st October 2017, 11:16 AM #338
Paul,
Both of the saws are reasonably sharp. The D-55 looks like it might be unsharpened since being manufactured. The DS-126 looks like it's been sharpened and dinged by users. The 55 is filed crosscut at about 15-20o with a hammer set of about 0.060" and the 126 is filed rip with a spring/ plier set of about 0.065".
Been reading a lot of metallurgy lately and learned recently that the hardenable SS types have been around for quite some time, the precipitation hardening types were first developed in the 1940's.
Regards,
RobInnovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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23rd October 2017, 09:21 AM #339
Noticed another unusual feature of these saws, the nuts on the medallion screws only are aluminum truncated cone design.
Disston stainless saw medallion nut detail.jpgInnovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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31st December 2017, 11:31 AM #340
A few British saws
I managed to pick up some British maker saws at pretty good prices as comparators.
British saws are soft. The only other British saw I've tested was a Footprint and it too was soft at HRC 44.5.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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1st January 2018, 12:55 PM #341
Jackson open handle dovetail saws
I expected these to be much the same as their Disston peers. May be that, in addition to cheaper and less well formed handles, they had lower QC standards.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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9th January 2018, 10:29 AM #342Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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9th January 2018, 01:12 PM #343
A
Anyone know why British saws are softer than comparable period Disstons?Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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9th January 2018, 02:58 PM #344
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10th January 2018, 02:11 AM #345
Could be Matt, could also be the fell influence of those Continentals...
I suspect however that the lower hardness is intentional.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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