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  1. #1
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    Default Im doing another one for Ian

    Well I'm at it again.
    River Oak crosscut back saw.this time.
    Saw length approximately 280 mm depth about 70 mm.
    Work done so far handle has been cut out and basic shaping done sanded to 240 grit.
    Saw plate slot cut always very nerve racking doing that.
    Saw plate was an old Trojan back saw from one of those big sheds.
    I did run my mic over it but I've forgotten and am now way from my bench for a bit.
    The plate I've cut down to more suit the proportions of the handle.
    Also cutting off the old case hardened teeth in the process.
    I cut the plate using a very large set of tin snips, then place the plate in my large saw vice and true the edges first with a large mill file then I run over the edges with fine diamond stone.

    So now I would love some input.please and lots and lots of it don't hold back I can handle it.
    I could just cut the mortise for the back drill a couple of saw bolt holes and call it done. With a cost of oil or two and cut some teeth of course.
    But that's just not me or fun [emoji3]
    Also Ian W and my self had a very interesting and frank discussion about the crop of modern saw makers. Most off whom we thought were good. A few weeks back and so I want to try(try being the word)and restrain my self yet still have a bit of fun
    With out getting what Ian and I called fluffy(We well me actually, used a different word but I'm not aloud to use that here[emoji3])

    Any way enough of my dribble pics away
    Cheers Matt



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  3. #2
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    Dec 2013
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    San Antonio, Texas, USA
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    Default

    Matt, PM me a real email address and I'll send you my handle fitting and screw fitting written SOP's.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Matt,

    looks good mate.

    only two suggestions I'd have at this stage is I think the saw plate needs to come further into the handle both asthetically and to get enough room to fit the bolts nicely. The other is on the inside of the grip I'd fade the rounding out with a smoother transition rather than the abrupt change you have.

    Nice piece of wood. You always seem to find nice pieces for your handles.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  5. #4
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    Default

    Thanks Dale
    Yep saw plate will be going in further definitely.
    And your right once I took my rose tinted glasses of, stepped back from daydreaming.
    And had a look at the saw through the pics on my phone.
    Ye it needs attention the transition between we're the grip round over ends at the front there I thought initially it looked good but I may be wrong.
    It's funny our time can make things look more clearly like that.
    Not sure how I get nice timber for my handles.
    I think I must have the smallest timber collection in all of Victoria
    Well I think so lol
    It would fit in a boot of a small car
    Excluding the pine off cuts from work of course lol

  6. #5
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    Nov 2004
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    Matt

    You definitely have the bug. I will be most interested to see how this develops. I agree with Dale regarding the handle needing to be placed further on the plate, but for a different reason. Dale reasoned that there may be insufficient room for the holding screws and while that may be a small issue, for me it is more a question of balance.

    The trick is to get the proportion right. I am saying this as one who has only made replica handles most times and only occasionally a new handle from scratch and even then I have been influenced by existing examples. The easy part is for another party to sit back and criticise!

    Good work.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  7. #6
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    Default

    Thanks Paul,
    Really appreciate the comments and feed back.
    It may be my crapy phone pics as well.
    But yes definitely the plate is going further in.
    It had been cut in quite deep.
    So I'm not sure if I actually placed the plate were I intend before taking pics of it.
    I'm back in Melbourne now.
    And unfortunately may not be back at the saw for at least another 8/9 days.
    Bloody life in the way of more gentlemanly pursuits again I must get that sorted lol.

    Cheers Matt

  8. #7
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    Sorry Matt, I wasn't ignoring you, I just didn't see your post til now. Been distracted by other matters, & not even thinking about backsaws for the last couple of months.

    You seem to be evolving towards a more 'conventional' handle, but this one has a nice elegance to it. I like it.

    As the others said, the blade looks like it needed to come back a bit so the bolts can get a grip on it. Typically, these little saws have a triangle or curved bit chopped off the top of the saw plate, so the spine doesn't have to come too far back into the handle, but you still have plenty of plate inside the cheeks for the bolts to go through.

    One thing I learnt early in my sawmaking was to cut out the blank, then cut the kerf and inlet the brass & drill for the bolts first. That's the part that can go wrong all too easily, and it's rather annoying if you've already invested lots of precious time shaping the handle. RayG posted a sad story once, of a handle that he busted doing the inletting & bolts as a last step.

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #8
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    Nov 2011
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    Ian ,
    It's perfectly fine ,I knew you were busy with the Queensland wood show.
    I even thought about briefly coming up and doing a saw sharping demo lol.
    No harm done here ,it's not all about me all the time apparently .
    Some one once told me that(I know longer speak to said person for obvious reasons lol)

    I do hope your not suggesting ,I'm going conservative on this one. That will just make me want to get out the files and chisels and start hacking a perfectly good handle up after all .
    I was punk in my twenties lol.
    No ,I am trying a new approach here ,instead of my usual hells bells full steam in ,I'm being a little slower here ,god my mother would love to read this.
    She always thought I was the most inpatient kid out of her litter of 6,
    Yes definitely agree with you on the count ,of the saw slot ,it's the one thing that is critically important .
    I first ruff out the front curve of the saw with my scroll saw then sand it on the disk sander ,after I've marked it out on the stock I then cut the saw slot.
    And make sure the blade is straight.
    The mortise and saw bolt holes I'm happy to leave till a little further on.
    And yep I should I've pointed out the saw blade will be going in deeper.
    Yep like I said ,straight after just cutting out the front curve and sanding it.
    If I stuff it up ,and I have stuffed up few .
    I don't loose any sleep or tears. Just a bit of timber and a few minutes.
    I do have a reminder sitting just out of harms way, not to leave it till all most last .
    That one cost Sally quite a few O dear darling, can't you just make another one remarks.
    But I feel I'm not alone there lol.

    What I would appreciate from yourself, and others of course I can handle it(that was quite good I can handle it) the point Dale brought up right full critisam regarding the area in the pic I've circled.

    When I first rounded over the area. I thought leaving the last bit looked kind of cool .
    But now after viewing it ,thought the lens of camera .
    I totally agree with Dale ,it needs something.
    But something is the problem ,I'm not sure what I should do?
    Just continue the round over blend it more gradually .
    Or maybe even round it over more than the rest ,blending it in to the checks more ????
    Or maybe an upside down lambs tongue to just cement my place in all hell and brimstone fire lol

    Cheers Matt

  10. #9
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    Matt

    I think you could do a lot worse than just continue the rounding over.

    Have a look at these Kenyon saws, which are made by Wenzloff and Sons. They are themselves based on the saws in the Seaton Toolchest made by John Kenyon. They are the epitome of simple elegance. The originals were made around 1896 or at least just before the turn of the 18th century.

    However, I am not sure if such influence enables you to meet your criteria of thinking outside the square .

    wenzloff_kenyon_saws.jpg

    Still nice to look at even if you don't go down that track. Incidentally I was reading Chris Schwartz's account of the tenon saw (sash saw if you prefer) from that chest. The saw was 19" long, but he says it is a beauty to use. Now it just so happens that I have a couple of saws that length here in my bag..... and to you....

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  11. #10
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    Matt, I can sort of see where you're coming from with the 'step' but the way it is, it just looks like you stopped rounding-over at that point and forgot to finish it. What you need to do is to add something so that it looks intentional & not 'unfinished. The conservative approach (i.e. the one I'd take ), would be to continue the rounding, but taper it out to nothing at the corner. It really depends on what you plan to do with the cheeks. If you are leaving them as they are now, the above is all I'd do. The square edges look nice & crisp, I'll grant, but they do get to hit the work occasionally, no matter how careful you are, and if you leave them square, they are more likely to chip. So I'd put at least some chamfer on bottom curve of the cheeks. If you are intending to put a chamfer on, I'd do that first, then start the rounding from almost nothing, gradually increasing it 'til it meets the present 'step' neatly. But as I said, that's the conservative approach......

    Cheers,
    IW

  12. #11
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    Paul ,
    Thanks for the feed back ,I think your right.
    I could do a lot worse than just continue the rounding over all the way to the end.
    Maybe ,I need to just do it ,look back and think ,we'll that wasn't so bad afterwards.
    But It's funny as you get further in to a project ,no matter what it is really, how your anxiety goes up as the hours spend on it tick away.
    Perfectly understandable of course ,when two seconds can wreck hours of work or more.
    But I think that also sharpens your focus and skill.
    Are the Seaton Tool chest ,yes I remember reading about it.

    A fantastic tool collection, and In such great condition as well.
    The wenzloff boys do some nice saws know doubting that.
    simplicity by design is easier said than done.
    I'm not sure how you figured ,I like to think outside the rectangle
    Someone must be talking about me behind my back lol .

    On another note ,I've been looking at a lot of old saws on eBay of late immmmmmm.

    Cheers Matt

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Matt

    The originals were made around 1896 or at least just before the turn of the 18th century.
    I'd like to say that the slip up with the date was deliberate to see if anyone read my posts, but it was just a common all garden stuff up!

    Should be 1796, of course. Makes them even more remarkable. Actually the original set was never used as the lad decided he did not want to be a carpenter, which explains why the whole chest of tools is in such good nick.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #13
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    That's right I was trying to remember the story behind the tool chest.
    I knew it was more remark bull than the tools them self.
    Which is proberly why there in such great condition as you said

    Matt

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    I'm not sure how you figured ,I like to think outside the rectangle
    Someone must be talking about me behind my back lol .

    On another note ,I've been looking at a lot of old saws on eBay of late immmmmmm.

    Cheers Matt
    Matt

    This thread may be for you then:

    A well known phrase or saying.

    I have no advice for you regarding saws on Ebay: Mainly because I don't see a problem.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Matt

    This thread may be for you then:

    A well known phrase or saying.

    I have no advice for you regarding saws on Ebay: Mainly because I don't see a problem.

    Regards
    Paul
    Paul I almost fell off my seat with laughter regarding your eBay quote

    Cheers Matt
    Back comfortably sitting lol

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