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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Default A small, no-set saw

    I fell of the wagon today...

    It's been several months since I made a saw, and I had no intentions of making any for some time, but a few things conspired to break the drought. First, I was using my the nice 12" 12 tpi no-set saw I made several months back on a couple of jobs recently, which required cutting some small tenon shoulders & I found it a bit clumsy for the finer stuff. It did the job well enough, but it was hard to see where I was around all that metal, and at 12 tpi, it was a bit 'bitey' on small pieces. Today, I was supposed to be doing some yard work, but by 8 o'clock, it was so unpleasant outside, I scuttled back to the shed (which was marginally cooler & has a nice big industrial fan) and looked for some small, light job to keep me busy until things cooled off a bit outside.

    I remembered my travails with my no-set saw & decided I would make myself a smaller, lighter version. A quick rummage through some bits & pieces turned up most of the necessary bits for a small saw, so I thought I'd make myself a 200mm saw, give it 14tpi & no set & see what it could do.

    I even had some bolts, but they had 1/2" diameter heads & 5mm shanks, & I reckoned something a bit more delicate would suit better, so I knocked up a couple out of 7/8 (~11mm) diameter brass rod, with 4mm shafts. Here they are compared with the normal 5mm shaft bolts I make from 1/2" rod: 1 bolts.jpg

    I had a handle already sawn out, not certain what the wood is, but it's an Acacia, either Salwood from Nth Qld, or black wattle from my yard, or possibly Blackwood (sometimes very hard to differentiate!), and a short length of 1/4 x 3/4" spine already slotted, and a 200m length of 20 thou (~.42mm) plate, so before too long, these were mated up: 2 blade fit.jpg

    I was impatient to see how it would perform so I toothed the blade and tried it out with the rough handle: 3 testing.jpg
    I don't know if it was the heat alone (the sweat was dripping in my eyes & fogging my magnifier) , but I was having one of those mornings where I was just not in the rhythm & the teeth ended up a bit rough. I'm also still not totally accustomed to this extreme 45* fleam angle, & the small teeth seemed to make it even harder to stay consistent. I'll re-do them later, when the weather is a bit more friendly, but they were good enough for a test-run. In spite of the less than perfect teeth, the cut was impressively clean & straight: 4 test cut 1.jpg

    So I went ahead and shaped the handle. First up, I like to get intricate details like the lamb's tongue sorted out. If it goes pear-shaped then at least I haven't invested too much work in it: 5 shaping L-T.jpg

    Then some guide-lines are pencilled in & the horns rounded: 6 horns.jpg

    The remainder is roughed out with rasps & files: 7 roughed out.jpg

    Takes about 20 minutes to 1/2 hour to do the roughing-out to ths point, but about another 3 hours or more to clean up, scrape, sand & polish the wood & brass, & do the final assembly: 8 complete.jpg

    I already have a small saw that I use for fine work (18tpi, x-cut), so I was interested to compare the two. There is quite a difference! While the 18tpi saw (with a fine set) is easy to 'steer', the smoothness of the cut is way short of the no-set saw. The set saw cut is on the left, and nowhere near as smooth as the no-set cut: 9 test cut 2.jpg

    However, as I've noted before, a no-set saw gives you practically no steerage, so you have to start with it absolutely square to the line you wish to saw. It's ok for an experienced sawyer, but I reckon a saw like this could frustrate a beginner no end, so don't chuck away your saw-sets yet, if you are starting out in the arcane world of saw-sharpening!

    So, at the end of the day, which one will I keep - the 18tpi, 20* fleam, 'set' saw or the 14tpi 45* fleam, no-set saw? : 10 old & new.jpg

    I think I'll keep both for a while, and see which one ends up staying in the till more often....

    Cheers,
    IW

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    US
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    Default

    I like those little saw bolts you made. Very nice. Got an extra 200 or so for 1" thick handles.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
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    Default

    I knew you wouldn't last long!

    Step one. Admit that you have a problem...

    Ok, so just clear something up for me. Is the cleanliness of the cut surface the fundamental improvement with the high fleam/no set saw? Or is it just the ease with which it's maintained due to the lack of having to set the teeth?

    Having never used a saw like this, I just want to make sure I'm understanding what is to be gained.

    It certainly looks great!

    Cheers,
    Luke

  5. #4
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    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bontz View Post
    I like those little saw bolts you made. Very nice. Got an extra 200 or so for 1" thick handles.
    Ron, making that many, one at a time, would not be fun with my mini-lathe! I guess when Mr. Glover applied for his patent, either automatic lathes had already been invented, or he knew they were coming......
    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #5
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    Mar 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Maddux View Post
    .......Ok, so just clear something up for me. Is the cleanliness of the cut surface the fundamental improvement with the high fleam/no set saw? Or is it just the ease with which it's maintained due to the lack of having to set the teeth?....
    Luke, I guess it was the clean cut that Disston most emphasized, and it's certainly a very obvious feature. You can see the odd small lineon the cut surface, but when you run a finger over it, you can't feel anything - it's like it's been planed already.

    But the part I value possibly more than the smooth cut, and which didn't seem to get a mention when the 77 was being touted as the last word in saws, is the ease of getting it to cut right where you want it to. Maybe it's just me, but I find that even with a lightly-set saw, it's harder to judge exactly where to put the saw to either 'split the line' as my old cabinetmaker mentor used to advocate, or at least cut right on the edge of it, because they produce a slightly ragged line. The vertical, knife-like teeth that you get with 45* of fleam & no set slice the fibres cleanly, & there is no raggedness to the edge. It's really easy to bring the saw down right on the edge of the scribe line.

    As I said before, if only you could steer the damn thing, I'd have no further need for a set crosscut saw in my shed, but there are many times when you just want to lop off pieces with reasonable accuracy rather than absolute precision, and a more conventional fleam & set saw does that without needing the concentration the no-set saw demands. It would also gag on anything that was a bit moister than ideal, too, so I'll always need a set saw or two in my kit as well as these no-set things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Maddux View Post
    ......Step one. Admit that you have a problem...
    OK, I'll admit it.....


    Hmmm, I think I still have the problem.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
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    1,857

    Default

    Ian,

    That's really interesting. Maybe I'll consume a significant volume of round 'tuit one day and try it. Maybe I'll even make the saw...

    Have you considered the possibility of a progressively fleamed and set saw? What if the first couple of inches had zero set, so that you could get the super clean line, and then when you got it going and started taking full length strokes you could engage the set teeth in the cut underneath the clean entry. This might allow for the precise placement and start of the cut as well as the ability to steer once the cut has begun?

    Just a thought...

    Cheers,
    Luke

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