Thread: Chisel Hardness Study, the first step.

I would also be considered a gentleman user. I work with woodworking tools for a couple of hours each weekend if I'm lucky.

Which chisels do you have? It's very unlikely that you have two chisels that will chip in the long run. They are either decarbed at the edge, or you just haven't found what they like for angles or use.

There is probably something I'd like to trademark as the magic chisel trick. That is, the longer you work with chisels (even if they don't change), and the better you get as a woodworker, the less you'll find edge damage on your chisels. Two blue marples, a 5001 stanley and the witherby are the only dud chisels I've seen in probably 200-300 total chisels (and the marples and stanley are not considered fine woodworking tools). The rest have been different, and at the outset, I couldn't get an edge to last in some of them - at least not as long as I'd like - but as time has gone on, I've learned to work quite well with everything else.

I learned that the stanley 750 that doesn't hold up in cocobolo does just fine with an extra two or three degrees. I have some sharpening tips for best edge holding vs. lowest resistance for Rob's test, but I'm sure he has his own way, so I'll let it go. The same trick works for super hard japanese chisels that tend to chip with heavy use instead of bending.

As for the old tools not measuring up, it may be some of the same thing. The finest chisels I've used are old ward bevel edge chisels. Nothing else compares in the process of actual work. Buck brothers chisels are also lovely, but a bit softer (and an inexperienced user would probably deem them too soft, but not after learning to use them). I. Sorby, again, as good as anything. Older marples - same. But you have to use those tools and sharpen those tools the way they like to be used and sharpened.

the narex included in this test are capable of fine work, but they are not the equal of the older English chisels, let alone the best of the currently available chisels (which tend to be japanese and white steel).

They are having trouble with edge rolling - not chipping....

One is my new 1/2" Woodcraft Socket Chisel - the other 3 (1", 3/4", and 1/4") have made it through both paring end grain spruce and a chop through end grain Sapele.... This one is resisting my efforts on the end grain Sapele chop...

The other is my replacement Pfeil chisel. It will pare end grain spruce fine.. It will push pare end grain mahogany - but it wants to lightly roll on a chop through 1/4" of end grain Sapele...

So far - the Green handle Woodcraft bench chisels performed admirably once I ground the backs flat... And the new Marples Blue Chip sailed right through...

Am I correct that the chisels rolling are narex chisels? I still suspect decarb. whether it's chipping or rolling, the cure is always two more degrees, use the chisel for a while, and check back again after a few sharpenings and see if you can go a little more shallow.

Oh... And the Aldi chisels made the cut from the last round of this after a considerable go at grinding the backs.. Now - it's not a long term edge retention test... But at least it's a first pass crack at this....

and the entire set of Aldi chisels made it all at once - no rejects... It took a lot of work on the backs and bevels to cooperate - but all of them will pare spruce endgrain and chop Sapele end grain without obvious edge trauma.. And that says something....

Very much unlike the Harbor Freight set... Only 3 of 12 (2 full sets) made it.... Two 1/4" and one 3/4" made the cut...

Speaking of tool pigging, i just nailed down a later-manufacture 8 piece set of boxwood handled marples chisels for $160. Some might not celebrate that price, but it's taken me a while to find a good clean set of those where the set isn't obviously harlequin. I bought them within minutes of their listing, too.

As to comments about older chisels, though I'm a complete pig, I'm always reminded that George Wilson made nearly all of the things he made with a set of boxwood handled marples (a little older, harder and probably a bit better than the ones I bought)...well, and probably a couple hundred carving tools. He suggested his set was around 60 or 61. One of them had a fault and broke at some point.

(He has more tools than that, but like a lot of us, when he buys a new set of chisels that he's found NOS, he has trouble justifying a point where he actually sets them up and uses them).

The first of these is from the set I recently received from Paul. We both asked at the time if anybody could ID it but no dices, so worth another try. This chisel is 'UNK Japanese Bench' in the above reported results.

UNK JP bench chisel from Paul.jpg


The second is from a set of crank chisels I bought years ago on eBay. It is referred to as 'UNK Japanese Crank' in the above reported results.

UNK JP crank chisel.jpg

Anybody recognize them?

Originally Posted by rob streeper

... first of these is from the set I recently received from Paul.

... second is from a set of crank chisels

Anybody recognize them?

Rob - those photos are not very clear. Not that I will be able to read them myself, but they may need to be clearer for someone who can read those two character styles.

UNK JP bench chisel from Paul 2.JPGUNK JP crank chisel 2.JPGUNK JP bench chisel from Paul 3.JPGUNK JP crank chisel 3.JPG

I'm 99% sure the cranked neck is Iyoroi. Looks the same as the stamp on mine, I'll upload a pic when I get home

Thanks Elan. I was beginning to suspect that was possible based on the fact that TFJ carries something similar.

A funny thing happened in testing this chisel. It was later in the day and I was working away (in a bit of a rush to finish this series of tests) paring off slices. I stopped, brought my test board in to weigh it and to my surprise I had removed 50 grams of oak, far more than the 5 or so I intended. This is a very effective chisel. The long un-hooped handle helps too.

Rob, sounds like a real dandy of a chisel you got there. Paring oak is no laughing matter. You have my admiration after going at this much oak end grain for the cause of science.

My favorite guitar I have built so far has an oak neck... Carving that neck - I gave up on edge tools and simply went to the rasps and cloth roll sand paper..... While it is a bit beck heavy, I love it.... But no more oak necks for me.... Too much trouble.

As an aside - both the Pfeil and the last Wood River socket chisel finally came around.... The Pfeil required the same aggressive back work as the rest of them as well as an aggressive go at the bevel... I had initially assumed that since they were Swiss - they would only need some light prep.... Wrong. I had already worked the back of that Wood River sufficiently (it got some more on general principle...) - it needed more metal removed from the bevel and then it really settled in with a very large imprivement in cutting performance on wood...

Something interesting about doing this. These chisels all feel *Very* different on my stones after finding this harder metal..... They feel "hard" and "smooth" now on my DMT X-fine stone where before this - they felt more "gummy" than they do now...

Here's my Iyoroi

IMAG2833.jpgIMAG2834.jpg

And here's one of my set of what I believe are the same unknown bench chisels. I've found my ebay invoice from August 2010; the description is: "JAPANESE OIRE chisel 10P "NA" with contain scroll plane", the seller is 330mate_com (he's still around, but seems to only have knives, stones and a few saws), price was US$230 (AU$260 at the time...ahhh the good old days when the USD was weak ). Try as I might, I can't find anything else on the internet about them

IMAG2835.jpg

Thanks Elan,

If the three large characters in the center of the Iyoroi label is the company name and not something like 'this chisel really good' I think the stamp on my crank chisel matches the label on the handle of your Iyoroi. They may have the same stamping on the blade but I don't see any auxiliary marks on mine that are similar to yours.

Your other chisel inscription looks very similar to that on the chisel I have. I'll send a message to 330mate_com and see if I get a response.

Regards,
Rob

Originally Posted by truckjohn

But no more oak necks for me.... Too much trouble.

I would never have thought of making a larger carving, like a saw handle, from oak because of the difficulty either but these chisels have opened my eyes to the added capability conferred by the longer handle. As DW mentioned I've read reports of the tendency of JP chisels to chip in harder timbers when hammer driven. Paring is another matter and all of the JP chisels I tested did really well. Now I've got a set on my shopping list.

Makes me think about possibilities with species that I would normally think of working with saws and rasps, for instance, we have a lot of Live Oak (considerably harder than red and white oak) in this area and brush collection season is starting again.

Interesting how manufacturers put out products that need significant work before you can use them isn't it? Kind of like selling a car without the steering wheel or brakes.