Very dissapointed with purchase

**Woodwould** · 20th November 2009, 10:47 AM

I paid another enjoyable visit to Carba-Tec recently with Mrs. Wood. One of the items on my shopping list had also been on my previous list; a stick of Lee Valley's green honing compound, but seemingly they sell out of them virtually as soon as they come in. I know, there are cheaper, more readily available alternatives, but I have fallen victim to the hype surrounding this product and I just wanted to try it. So, with the bug well and truly under my skin, I went on-line and ordered a stick of the compound from a Western Australian store (not Carba-Tec). Don't ask me why, but I added a Milescraft Offset Base for my router to the order while I was at it.

A few days later, I received a courtesy call from a pleasant individual who advised me the compound was out of stock and wouldn't be coming in again until mid December. I opted to have the router base sent on and keep the compound on back order.

The router base instructions said to remove the original base and use the original (Makita) screws to attach the off-set base. This presented Problem Number One. Despite the recesses in the off-set base, the original screws would only engage by roughly one to two threads and I wasn't prepared to chance stripping the threads in my router. Mrs. Wood subsequently spent a lot of time running round to find longer screws for me and I eventually mounted the off-set base on the router.

I stood the router up on its base and directly encountered Problem Number Two. The base wasn't flat and the router rocked all over the place! I didn't try the new base out in earnest, but it was quite apparent that if I had tried to use it, the degree of instability would, at least, have caused the router bit to create inaccurate cuts, but could conceivably have caused a dig-in with imaginable consequences.

On closer inspection, the plastic base seemed to have been poorly moulded. Although seemingly injection moulded, the bottom surface was rippled as if it suffered inconsistent cooling or curing issues. The base cost $18.75, but still, it should be fit for purpose no matter what the price.

I emailed the shop, explained the problems and asked for a refund. Two days later, at about 6:45pm, I received a phone call from the shop (remember, they're in WA) from a rather aggressive individual who was evidently prepared for battle from the off; "Is that Mr. Wood, is it?"
"Here we go" I thought to myself, not even knowing who the caller was.

Mr. Irate of WA didn't begin with apologies or commiserations for my dissatisfaction with the product, instead he immediately embarked on a hostile and condescending tirade, explaining that he had looked at three of the bases and noted "… maybe half a mil of movement, but nothing like enough to make it inaccurate". I countered that if the three bases he looked at had, at least, some inaccuracies, was it not plausible that the one I received could be as bad as I described? Mr. Irate was incensed at my description of the off-set base and said "I don't believe you!' and just kept saying "I don't believe you!"

Once Mr. Irate of WA had crossed that barrier and established I was a liar, it was all down hill. He went on; "Did it not occur to you to flatten the base on a sheet of sandpaper?" Well this raised two issues, firstly, if I had even felt remotely inclined to flatten the base, how should I have gone about it to maintain the perpendicularity of the router to ensure accurate cuts? Secondly, this was a brand new product – why should I have to start in with sandpaper and elbow grease (which, sadly, I find in very short supply these days) to correct manufacturing faults? Mr. Irate of WA clearly anticipated my train of thought, but nonetheless, he came out with "If you buy a new Stanley plane, you have to flatten the sole of it!"

Somewhere in the depths of my mind I could hear Vicky Pollard, "Ohhhhh myyyyy God! I can't believe you just said that!"
"That's absolute BS!" I retorted. "You don't need a flattened plane to create fine woodwork!"
Anyway, what had a Stanley plane got to do with this router base?

Mr. Irate of WA was absolutely ropeable that I should be complaining about a $20 router base in the first instance, but after further derision, suggested I return the base and if he found it to be unusable, he would refund the purchase price. I said I wasn't going to return it in the unlikely event (given his dismissal of the whole concept of wobbly router bases) he would deem it unsuitable only to be refunded the purchase price. It was a no-brainer, the postage cost more than the router base!

After more deliberation, he agreed to "… meet me half way" and refund the outbound postage - but not the return postage. Why should I be penalised even one cent for the shonky goods he sent me? I, or should I say, Mrs. Wood, had already invested considerable time and not a little money in tracking down suitable replacement screws for the base.

However, before further negotiations could continue, he for some reason called me a liar again. That had been his mindset before he even lifted the phone to call me and his attitude wasn't amenable to favourable customer relations or resolving the issue. Mr. Irate of WA was talking over me and matters were getting nowhere, so I ended the call.

That's the second unfavourable dealing I've had with this WA company in the past couple of years and will be the last. I don't even expect I'll see the honing compound come mid December.

**Sturdee** · 20th November 2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I However, before further negotiations could continue, he for some reason called me a liar again.

Totally unacceptable behaviour. I think you should complain to CT Brisbane (their head office) and see if that gives you satisfaction.

If not please report that back as well as we ought to organise an email complain tree about this. Letting head office know that they may loose more customers over calling respected members liars and not fixing problems of their stores or franchisors.

Peter.

**Woodwould** · 20th November 2009, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Totally unacceptable behaviour. I think you should complain to CT Brisbane (their head office) and see if that gives you satisfaction.

Whoa! Peter, This is not about Carba-Tec, but one of their WA-based rivals. I have nothing bad to say about Carba-Tec.

**rsser** · 20th November 2009, 11:54 AM

There's another big mail order operation in WA.

If that's the one, after initial hiccups I've found them OK.

Sounds like you got a rogue 'sales assistant'.

The moment anyone gets abusive I ask them their name and to speak to their manager straight away. Usually gets a result either with them or the manager. I'm on first name terms with a number now

. One even invited me in for coffee after the issue was resolved.

In this particular case, the item is not fit for purpose. See if you can send the manager a digital pic. They should refund your costs.

**Bob38S** · 20th November 2009, 11:57 AM

Does not sound good at all.

Perhaps a call [1800 number ?] or email to Mr Irate's boss or owner of the business could be in order - that is presuming that Mr Irate is not one and the same.

You mention that it is a "brand name product" - I would also inform the company.

Mr Irate has admitted that he had looked at three of the bases and noted "… maybe half a mil of movement, but nothing like enough to make it inaccurate". Perhaps it is just me but "half a mil" of movement when using a router would not be acceptable.

The goods, from your description, do not appear to perform as advertised and should therefore be either replaced or refunded [- I totally agree - at no cost to you].

I would have thought that a happy customer would be of great benefit to any business - most I deal with understand this and will endeavour to ensure that their gear is good.

Hope it helps,
Bob

**jmk89** · 20th November 2009, 12:10 PM

I've had the same experience as Ern. If it is Timbecon, I have had very good dealing with Robert Iles but some of the staff have a bit of a problem with :
1. Manners
2. Truthfulness.

It helps management deal with the f'wits if customers make them aware of the problems. If they don't hear about the problems, they will never do anything to fix them.

**Chesand** · 20th November 2009, 12:12 PM

I thought the attitude at that company might have changed with the new owners since I had a bad experience with them about 3 years ago. Maybe some of the old staff have not learned any new manners from the new owners.
Mine was a much bigger purchase than yours but no satisfaction even after contacting WA Comsumer Affairs which turned out to be a toothless tiger

**mat** · 20th November 2009, 12:27 PM

I have bought a number of products from this company, all of which have been poorly engineered/manufactured and will in no way allow accurate woodwork. Like you I have had nothing but trouble with their response to problems.

They have lost me as a customer.

I still have one of their crap router fences sitting on a shelf, never used as it is not straight/perpendicular or flat in any direction.

**TP1** · 20th November 2009, 12:28 PM

I assume you are referring to timbecon? That was in any event totally unacceptable behaviour.

Make sure you talk to Robert about this - i am sure he would want to know and he he would be aware of the impact that tis could have on future sales due to the info being disseminated on this forum.

**Woodwould** · 20th November 2009, 12:45 PM

I'm not sure who it was that called me. My hearing isn't good and the caller got stuck in so swiftly that even if he did mention his name, I unfortunately didn't pick it up. However, I got the impression that he wasn't a shop floor lacky and I would like to think it wasn't a Mr. Iles.

This is the second time they've dumped on me (how stupid am I?) and it's the last. If they want $18.75 (plus postage) that badly, they can have it. I'm not sure if I could be bothered expending more energy chasing them. Warning others is recompense enough.

**Chesand** · 20th November 2009, 12:58 PM

It is amazing how many business owners and staff do not understand retailing.

If customers do not come in the door or over the phone, the owner does not have a business and the staff do not have a job.

It is that simple.

**TP1** · 20th November 2009, 01:32 PM

From your description of the conversation I think I know who it was that you had a discussion with. It wouldn't be Robert Iles, but it is someone who often talks as if he is arguing with tradesmen on site, and has been around long enough to know a hell of a lot better.

I think it shows a lack of proper training on customer care by the organization. However, I think Robert would be very interested in doing something about it if he knew the extent of the rudeness that was displayed toward you.

**Ozkaban** · 20th November 2009, 01:34 PM

I've dealt with them only once, for router bits, and they were OK.

This story doesn't help though. Maybe they'll wander across this thread and realise the damage that can be done very quickly by poor service. Odds are if most of their business is done over the web, then most of their customers will see these forums...

I know how you feel about the $18. Sometimes it's just easier to walk away and enjoy spending cash elsewhere.

Cheers,
Dave

**Sturdee** · 20th November 2009, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Whoa! Peter, This is not about Carba-Tec, but one of their WA-based rivals. I have nothing bad to say about Carba-Tec.

Sorry, mis read your post.

. Should have been in less of a hurry.

Peter.

**chambezio** · 20th November 2009, 03:49 PM

When I was employed on wages I was the foreman of a cabinet making business supplying kitchens and the like to the industry. On one instance we installed a kitchen that had a laquered timber edge around a laminex top. After installing it was our practice to cover the top with cardboard and to tape in place to fend off any damage that may take place with other trades finishing off around it. Inevitably we would get a call "that the edge was scratched "and "that we had done it" and "that we had to fix it" and "it wasn't the...... fault.......".I knew it wasn't our fault because we had to be particular, to keep our boss happy, So I would either send one of the lads or go myself and repair the damage and say nothing just quietly do the job, knowing it cost my boss money to do it, but it kept the peace and harmony on that job.

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!

I think in this day and age courtesy has been replaced with "attitude" (down right bad manners). "Its only a $20 sale" SO WHAT!!! Its a sale just like the $2000 that might happen once a week (if things are good) how many $20 sales go into a normal week to keep the business machine working??? I don't have big $ to spend now, only little ones but I do expect a purchase to work just the same. And I bet I'm not alone!!!

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