Thread: School / Teachers

I can relate.

During my HS years I did well at maths, physics, chemistry, etc. The hard sciences. I despised geography, history and the 'social' sciences.

Looking back, I can see that the divide was based NOT on subject matter, but the Teachers! One set explained the whys and hows, teaching me to derive what I need to know. The other set just threw facts in my face and said 'memorise' and when asked 'why?' came back with 'because that's the way it is.'

There is a modicum of truth to the old adage: Those who can, do. Those who can't teach.

I guess that's one reason I always try to explain the reasons why I do things the way I do when helping someone with a problem. I'm not a good teacher... but at least I'm better than some.

In year 11 I did a subject called Physical Science, a bit of a combination of Physics and Chemistry.
While I probably had no problems with the work, the teacher wondered why I did not do it in Year 12. The Teacher!

Originally Posted by Handyjack

In year 11 I did a subject called Physical Science, a bit of a combination of Physics and Chemistry.
While I probably had no problems with the work, the teacher wondered why I did not do it in Year 12. The Teacher!

Ouch!

Been there, done that, too.

As an ex secondary science teacher for 7 years in the late 70's and early 80's, I saw lots of things things from the other side of the fence.

At one school had 47 different nationalities representedso assuming all the kids could understand let alone speak english was not a given. The teenage brats who though they knew everything before they got to school (luckily I had 4 younger brothers so I kind of knew what to expect), parents who thought their offspring were faultless, a lack of resources to do the job, the huge mismatch between the curriculum we were forced to teach and what the kids were interested in learning, the overcrowded class rooms, the numbers of kids with all sorts of disabilities who had no choice but to muck in with the rest. I particularly found the bullying some kids got from their peers most distressing.

You also need to remember the teacher does not always have a say about what they end up teaching in a class room and it was not uncommon for a teacher to be told by admin, "you are teaching X" without the teacher having any training in teaching X.

In one country town I had to teach health ed to one class of 15 year olds once a week for a year. Term two was sex ed. The prissy female deputy did not think a male teacher should teach sex ed to girls so I (thankfully) was not allowed to teach this and just had to supervise the class while a (very conservative and elderly) district nurse came in to took the lessons in a highly regimented fashion. There were lots of anatomical charts and some videos (with naked people in them!) so as expected lots of blushing, sniggering and comments from the kids. I had to ride shotgun down the back of the classroom and make sure the comments were not too lewd. I remember having to take two kids outside after they fainted during the birth video. The funniest thing was vetting the questions kids were too embarrassed to ask in open class and could write down anonymously and put them in a box at the front of the class. We got some doozies, all too ribald to describe here. After the first class I decided to show the questions to the prissy deputy and she took them away and read them and then came down to the class and read them the riot act. Of course in the next class there were no more questons just comments about the prissy deputies "panty hose being too tight" and not "getting enough". After that the question box was removed.

When I was told I had to teach (well supervise really) wood work for one class a week for a term because one of the wood work teachers was crook, because I was a science teacher the students were not permitted to use any tools, and had to do book work for that class set by another teacher and supervised by me - Boring!

Ironically the following year we were short of a science teacher and the role was filled by a phys ed teacher who did not have a clue. Were the students allowed to do experiments? - of course and the teacher almost set fire to a class room when he topped up a jar full of phosphorus with water and the science block had to be vacated and the bomb squad called. Was the teacher pulled from the class - no, he continued on, and for the sake of his students and ourselves we had to keep a close eye on him because he wanted to do some things he had no idea about.

Another year we were so short of science teachers we were supplied with 60 something year old ex -primary school teacher who came out of retirement to teach. This teacher had a 40 year old "two year primary school teaching diploma" and taught in a room next to me so I heard and saw a lot of what went on, or rather what didn't happen. It was a complete cock up of the highest order. The teacher just wrote stuff on a blackboard and the kids wrote it down, no talking or discussion, no questions, no experiments. After a term we had delegations of students and some parents coming to see the senior science teacher and the deputy about this teacher and the students all wanting to move to another class but nothing happened. In the general exams (taken by all students at the same level in the same year) at the end of term the students in that class did so badly their scores had to be scaled up by a massive amount to get students though the year - it was disgraceful when I think about it. This is ultimately an education dept failure to ensure enough suitably trained teachers were available.

We also had several ex-social studies teachers, a house painter with one year teacher training, and 3 year trained primary school teachers, as science teachers. Out of a staff of 12 science teachers less than half had the proper training and qualifications One year the senior science teacher had an arts degree and had his job on the basis of having done one uni chemistry subject. He ruled with a cane and a very loud voice and got good results from his students but lets not pretend it was a pleasant experience. He would sometimes come into my class room to see what experiments/demo my class was doing, or video we were watching. The following lesson he would use the gear I had organised for his lesson, even though the expt/demo/video had no relevance whatsoever to what he was supposed to be teaching. Sometimes he didn't understand what the demo was about (he just thought it looked cool) so I also had to go into his class to explain what it was about to the kids.

One problem with the parents was often that because everyone experiences school and sees some bad teachers and so some always think they can do better.
I would have liked to put them in front of 25 teenage brats who brought no paper, books or writing tools to class and spend the whole lesson carving their names in desks (or on themselves) and jabbered on to their mates the whole lesson to see how they'd go. Trying to get school admin for support was often a waste of time. A student I caught incessantly for cheating and sent to the deputy was sent back to me with a note suggesting I set another test and retest him!

Nearly all the kid's problems were caused before they came to school by the parents who had little or no control of them at home other than by verbal and/or physical abuse. When these young people were no longer in this environment what else could one expect. You might be a good student and suffered because the teacher had to manage these difficult individuals

I agree some so called teachers were, out of their depth, uninspiring, neglectful, lazy, played favourites and mind games, incompetent, even brutal, and should never have been put in front of kids, but if you pay peanuts does it surprise anyone we get monkeys.

We aso had some really good teachers who took their time to understand their students and tried to make a boring curriculum as interesting as they could but there were not that many. I lasted 7 years and then moved on. One of the most innovative guys in the science department was the lab tech and he and I and another teacher would often dream up and test demos for the students. These nearly always involved some sort of explosion. The lab tech was an amateur film maker and always looking for special effects etc We had a great time testing the demos and the showing the kids. I'm sure some will still remember them.

As you can tell I have lots of tales, a lot more than I have listed hear - I could write a book about this.
What I learned from all this was that if kids want to learn they will do so in spite of what is done to them.

"the teacher almost set fire to a class room when he topped up a jar full of phosphorus with water" reminded me of our science teacher at Wundowie Junior High, Mr Yeo, who had us take note of what happens with a small piece of phosphorous was dropped into a pan of water and the resultant explosion and drenching of the ceiling. I think that was the catalyst to our experimentation with various devices, gun powder, muskets, homemade firearms, cracker guns and the like, We got away with things like that over 50 years ago and learned by experience and still lived.

I had a handful of decent teachers, and a natural curiosity for most subjects, but the classroom was a chore. The most interesting subjects would often be reduced to the most boring through stagnant teaching methods, and teachers who had no answer beyond what page to read. The best teachers/classes involved some demonstration, something visual or hands on to at least give a reference point to all the bookwork. Fortunately I learned to self teach (the internet is an endless resource), and determined that the cost of education was more effective when applied to getting my hands dirty and making mistakes to learn from, rather than paying tuition for an arbitrary piece of paper.

Employers in general disagree, and tertiary education opens some doors denied to the paperless, so I enrolled in uni at 27. My attendance was about 10%, as I was working nightshift fulltime at the same time as fulltime study due to the cost of not living with parents nor having thier funds to fall back on. Study was done on public transport (2-3hrs a day), as was catching up on sleep. I soon developed an unhealthy and excessive energy drink addiction which lasted until I had full time work in my area of study and decided to delay finishing uni until I had the time to focus effectively without a dangerous caffiene intake (e.g. if my contract expired). Despite this, my marks were on par for masters entry until I left (18 months prior to graduatiuon), and I've done much self-education since leaving which is more relevant to my job. 2 years later I was granted a permanent full time position and haven't looked back (this was 5 years ago). I understand that finishing up uni would help with getting a more senoir position, but I think a decade's experience should be equivalent, and I've demonstrated sufficient capability to be the bloke who is called when someone has a problem - so much so that I was appointed the training co-ordinator for the software suites we use, and have run about a dozen courses over the last couple of years.

It's interesting being on the other side of the classroom. After I got over the "everyone's looking at me" self consciousness in the first class or two, it's been a great role to be in, as it included travel all over the state, and I've met many people in regional areas who call whenever they need help.

My approach when teaching is casual AF, though admittedly my students are not teenagers. I prefer it to being tense and robotic, and noticed that the students tend to mirror my demeanor, being more confident to question and explore when relaxed and not shy. I try to explain everything in simple language, a skill I picked up working in unskilled labour long enough to develop a layman's vocabulary (minus the frequency of expletives). For the boring technical chapters, a bit of humour or a mention of ancient civilizations and aliens possibly contributing to the math behind concepts keeps the students awake and more receptive to the content.

It's completely true that people can only learn if they want to, some students are forced to attend, see no benefit to thier role from the knowledge and would prefer to be elsewhere. I've been that student too, so I understand. I'll mention though, that even if they don't think they need to know how it is done, they'll beter be able to ask someone to do it for them if they half understand it.

It's also true that nowdays if you want to learn something you don't need a classroom. This forum has already taught me much about woodworking, youtube has some great videos, and some time in the shed had helped me figure out how not to do things. I've got a little rule for my initial projects - mistakes don't get fixed if they don't need to be, and stay on display in full view, so everytime I see it I'm reminded, and next time I do it I'll remember what not to do.

I also think that the broad range of online "teachers" offer a wider variety of teaching styles and opinions, so there's a better chance you'll relate to one as a student. Some videos are accompanied by a blog post with blueprints, which I think is kind of "paint by number", but can help early on to get things just right. Some videos have a techno soundtrack (which I'll watch muted) with the process demontrated at double speed, which I might pickup an idea from but I won't copy wholesale. I prefer not to be constrained by the instructions, and combine a few ideas or concepts to make something relatively unique, which doesn't happen often in a traditional classroom.

The internet is also great for differing opinions, so rather than have one teacher show me the one way to do something the way they were taught, I can see three other ways which also work and pick the one I prefer or get the best result from.

To me the classroom / schoolyard is much more about socialisation and networking than learning, and it is greatest when you have a teacher that can reach you and fellow students to collaborate with on something innovative beyond the scope of the class. As a raw student, limited knowledge allows greater freedom to try something new, and at worst learn why it doesn't work, knowledge which can be useful in future experimentation. I think being overtaught can limit this "outside the box" ability, and at it's extreme lead to intellectual elitism where you can speak intellegently on a subject but fail to do anything that wasn't already done before.

Learning how to self-teach is more important than the school you go to. Supporting curiosity and experimentation is paramount, which is rare in an environment where there is a strict schedule and subject matter, and an ever-present threat of discipline in the event of deviation. The peer social aspect also has it's effect. In some circles, it's cool to be stupid, and being different or expressing an interest in certain things is met with derision. These sort of peers are as influential as the quality of the teacher is in terms of effective education.

Bonus marks to parents who know how far along their kids' education is, and support afterclass reinforcement through real world examples rather than forcing extra hours of homework. It's simple really. A mate of mine in advanced academic classes had his mum make him do math in his head at every opportunity; whenever ordering food it was a race between him and the cash register. Woodwork is a wealth of teaching opportunities all the way from basic math for measurements, to trigonometry, biology, physics, and chemistry (not to mention safe lifting, tool use, project design etc.)

Bob,
What is really amusing about your post is that sitting at the student desk, I can almost put names on the kids that you described. As for the explosions, in chemistry that was me. Mine was always the loudest.

I had a mate that was always goading the teacher into using gases from commercial compressed gas bottles. One day he convinced the teacher to make ammonia after class. We filled a 250 ML bottle with 3 parts Hydrogen and one part Nitrogen. I fed some bell wire through glass tubing an annealed the ends. We put the tubing through a rubber stopper and attached the wire to a spark coil from the physics department that weighed over 10 Kg.

We put litmus paper in the bottle and bubbled the gases into the bottle and finally the rubber cork firmly in place. We were about ready to go when I said "Wait a minute." I took a towel and some surgical tubing and wrapped the bottle securely, very securely. The teacher looked at me and asked, "Is that really necessary?" I answered, "We don't know."

We passed a spark through the gases. There was the loudest explosion that I ever heard at the school. A couple of custodians working outside came running into the lab to see if everything was all right. The rubber cork shot out of the bottle with such force that one corner of the spark coil was lifted about 25 MM. Fortunately the bottle did not shatter. The teacher lost all colour in his face for about 5 minutes. Even to this day, I have never seen someone so shocked as he was that day.

The good things that came out of the Ammonia making was we all got extra credit, we were admonished to not write up the experiment and do not discuss it with anyone. The other thing was for every demonstration in class, the teacher would ask, "Richard, does this look safe to you?" There was one time where he was going to put Potassium on water. I said, "I think that there is too much water in the baking dish." He thought about it for a few seconds and dumped about half the water out. The way that the Potassium skittered about, bouncing into the sides of the dish the Potassium would have easily escaped if the dish was full. The class was oblivious to what could happen and most thought that the teacher was just getting on my back for whatever reason.

Another class I was required to take was 'How to build a LAN.' Our teacher, Gracie (God Bless Her) was another nationality and English was definitely not her first, second or third language. She did not know the subject but she studied to be able to teach the class. I had to take the class as it was a prerequisite for the Novel LAN Administrator class.

In those days, building a LAN was about 90% wiring. Poor Gracie probably had difficulty plugging in a floor lamp into a power point. I brought in all kinds of stuff from work and took over one class explaining the wiring aspects, everything from phones, coax to 10 Base T to the various data interfaces. The most difficult concept that I had getting across was that the wiring plant was, and still is, the most expensive part of building any network.

One week Gracie said that she may not be here next week because she was trying to get pregnant and had some fertility tests scheduled. In front of the whole class, I asked, "Gracie, when you got married, didn't they explain how that works?" I thought that she was going to kill me but she and the class started laughing and kept laughing for a good couple of minutes. After class Gracie gave me more information than I wanted to know. We became friends after that and yes she did and retired from teaching.

My high school science teacher in the early 60's was Mr Walton (who I think went on to have a science show on TV in NZ) He had this device which was a paint tin with a small funnel mounted inside with a pipe out through the side connected to a hose with a rubber bulb on the end. There was a short length of candle inside as well. In operation he would put a small amount of combustible material such as sulpher or flour, in the funnel, light the candle, put the lid on the tin and firmly the step on the bulb. This would cause the material to puff up and ignite blowing the lid off with a fair old bang. Of course this experiment had to be carried out out doors. He used to encourage the kids to bring various ingredients to school to fuel this experiment. It was eventually banned because it scared the crap out of other classes who were taken by surprise.
Another experiment was to stretch a length of fishing line from the goal posts from one end of the footy field to the other. We'd attach a co2 cartridge to the line by a pair of wire loops then poke a hole in the end of the cartridge with a compass point and try to see it whizz up the other end. Great stuff, I think he got banned from doing that one as well.

I've done all those many times Geoff.

One time a couple of teachers and myself decided to try stringing up a thin wire between one end of a science room an suspended a CO2 cartridge on a wire cradle from the wire and to get a bit more oomph into it we heated the thing directly with a bunsen. The teacher who lit the bunsen then realised he had been on the wrong side of the wire from the door so he hid under a desk. I got to the door and looked though a little window in the door but it took ages for anything to happen. Eventually it exploded and went sideways out through the wire cradle and hit the opposite wall knocking a corner off one of the bricks and ricocheted around the room, ping, pong before going out an open window. Surprisingly the copper seal did not burst rather the cartridge itself was peeled back line a banana from the heated side.

The other CO2 cartridge one we also did with the same mob of teachers was outside where we aimed the cartridge upwards . The area where we did this was at the back of the science block where the rubbish bins were stored and enclosed on 3 sides with brick walls and everyone behind a brick wall. We trailed a long hose outside for the gas and got the thing started and ran behind a wall but it was a windy day and the bunsen blew out after going for a while. No one was game to go back and light it so I gaffer taped a gas lighter to a broom handle and using a mirror as a periscope I managed to stand behind the brick wall and re-light it. After what seemed ages there was a loud bang. and we never saw the cartridge again.

Another common one I used to do in class was fill a large balloon up with hydrogen and tied it to a lab tap via a 1m long piece of string soaked metho. Then I would light the base of the string and stand back. The flame would quickly lick up the string and blow up the balloon. The kids loved this one. However, one time I could not find the string I normally used and instead decided to use a piece of twine. The Twine rapidly burned through and the balloon rose right up to the (high ceiling) and then exploded knocking out a couple of ceiling tiles which landed behind the teachers podium. The kids thought this was deliberate and cheered and roared with delight. And who should happen to be close by outside the classroom but the very grumpy deputy who heard the commotion and stuck his head in the side door and demanded to know what was going on. The kids were terrified of the deputy so they froze in silence. I was worried he or some of the kids would look up and he would see the hole in the ceiling or at least notice the faint pall of plaster in the air. I said "I think the students just got a bit excited over a demonstration". The deputy said "keep it down" and moved on. After the class the science lab tech who saw the whole thing through the teachers door window and had a good laugh helped me replace the tiles with some spares. Then word got around the school that I was doing this cool demo in class and everyone wanted to see it.

There are lots more - I could write a book about the things we did - it was by far the best part of teaching.

Had a mix of quality teachers at school. The Tech. Drawing teachers were all good and pretty relaxed. Had a couple of Maths teachers who had been WW II bomber navigators, and impressed on us the usefulness of maths. It was a subject I always liked. Had the most inspiring English teacher in my senior years at high school, Peter Finnane, who taught us not only about English, but about life, ethics, philosophy and many other things. I always liked science but had a very ordinary teacher. Failed Combined Phys. & Chem. in my final year, but the next year, at Sydney Tech. I managed to top the state in Physics.
I found the Tech College teachers, both face-to-face & correspondence, to be really good, almost without exception. Many were part-time teachers who worked full-time in their professions. My Physics teacher was a PhD who was in real life, a researcher with the CSIRO. Most of the surveying teachers were practising surveyors who loved their work and passed that enthusiasm on. I can remember several occasions where, half an hour after the class had finished, some of us were still there with the teacher discussing things that had come up in the class.
When I eventually became a part-time correspondence teacher, I tried to model myself on them, and have been rewarded by seeing some of my students achieve great success in their profession.