Thread: The hardest timber. Global hardness chart

Ha! Most of the native oregonians I have known have an accent that would pass as scandanavian. I always end up with a weird look when I ask them:
"Are you from Norway or Sweden?"
(nasty look) "No.. Oregon.."

anyway - I grew up in a place awash with nearly every dialect of what could sort of pass as "english".... I can generally understand about everybody so long as some portion of it passes for English...

A funny result of that is that I have ended up being the "English to English" translator..... The most humerous example of this was when I took my very-deep-south-country- Eastern USA dialect speaking wife to California... And they literally could not make out a word she said.... She would order something in a resturant and they would look at her like she was speaking Chinese or something... So she would repeat it louder - which made it worse... They would look at me dazed - and I would tell them "She wants a coke"..

But I have had to do this lots with work when we have folks come in from other places... Redneck to Mexican english.. Various flavors of Redneck or south American/Island or New York/New Jersey/Boston english to various flavors of British, Irish, Welsh, Australian, china, india, Africa, etc....

I guess I never realized how hard it was for some people to understand a different dialect of their own mother tongue... But my own parents could barely make out what my Wife's mother was saying about half the time.. But I had no trouble with it until I ran into local idioms that made no sense until explained...

Three (edit: four) Aussie timbers out of the top ten, but nothing in the ten softest timbers. Also I assume this is timbers sold by Alan so hardly comprehensive.

Regards
Paul

TruckJohn,
Great to see a fellow English speaker that understands! All of the language...I recall a PBS show in about 1985 about the history and development of the English language. Each, of 13 weeks, explored a different English speaking culture. I grew up in the SF Bay Area and thought WE spoke without an accent, until I got out a bit...we used to think the southern drawl was an 'uneducated' accent, sorry...I love it now, fluid and smooth. The other accent that gets up my nose is the American language pedant pho-net-ic one, where e-ver-y syl-a-ble is enunciated...I enjoy listening to most all accents, save for that 'new' Southern California 'Valley Girl' twang that has unfortunately permeated right through the country...and a thick Scottish accent is still difficult to understand. My watered down (after 30 years) neutral Calif accent is sort of Aussie-sized and peppered with local slang. Keep on translating! Cheers, mate.
Jim - 30 yr expat in AUS

LOL, accented "english" can be a lot of fun.
1. A Scottish-Australian mate is easy to understand until he gets excited about something, or had a few beers. When he goes home, they can't understand him because of his Australian accent.
2. There was an ABC (Aussie Born Chinese) working in our studio who, naturally, spoke with an Aussie accent. One of the clowns would speak in broken English with her and she'd respond in kind. It was hilarious. Until one Monday she came in a said they had to stop. She was out with friends when they all stopped talking and just started at her. She was speaking in broken English ;-)
3. Two brothers originally from one part of Galway had a totally different Irish accent from another bloke who grew up 20mins from them.


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Yea, and most yanks think that all British and Aussie accents are the same! Ha! An interesting thing about Aussie accents is that they are not so much regional as they are representative of education and socio/economic upbringing. The 'ocker' accent is a real cracker, skin to the British 'cockney' or 'Essex' accents. And we use rhyming slang as well as a HEAP of local vernacular, dare I say more than any other English speaking culture. Search a book on Aussie speak and 'ave a laugh'...think Hoges in Crocodile Dundee...
30 yr expat in Aus

Russy, As Graeme says, Lignum vitae is called "Guayacann" in the list

What is interesting is that these refer to mostly commercially available woods (in US). Many minor species eg other desert acacias and there are many eg western myall, some gidgees, certain mulgas etc which are not mentioned. Also many Australian woodworkers would know that dryland woods, like western rosewood, wilga, belah / black (she)oak, black cooilbah, Cooktown ironwood and a few eucalypts (eg some ironbarks, wandoo etc) are VERY hard too as some here have mentioned. Although these are rarely commercially available, overseas or here now, I can attest to both their harness and density having worked & cut these occasionally over the years.

In most cases there is a strong association between hardness and wood density ie the higher the density the harder the wood. Interestingly, with BULLOKE the hardest of all, it does not have the highest density. Why is that?


Sheoaks were used as blocks (about 6 x 6” laid on their ends) for roads, much like bluestone cobblestones are eg in Melbourne. There is a Mall in Collins down from Spring street, where they have been retained and polished a a historic display. Hardness results in good wearing and durability for roads and flooring.


Euge

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Hi Rustynail

Bootles says as follows:

• Lignum vitae - Guaiacum officinale - Janka 20 kN
• Gidgee - Acasia cambagei - Janka 19 kN

Didn't realise gidgee was so soft, but it sure is prettier, especially as used by Terry Gordon.


Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by Euge

In most cases there is a strong association between hardness and wood density ie the higher the density the harder the wood. Interestingly, with BULLOKE the hardest of all, it does not have the highest density. Why is that? ...

I reckon someone stuffed the test. Yes hard, like most sheoaks, but I don't find it that hard at all compared with the desert acacias. I have some Buloke that doesn't even pass the fingernail test (i.e. I can mark it)

Originally Posted by dai sensei

I reckon someone stuffed the test. Yes hard, like most sheoaks, but I don't find it that hard at all compared with the desert acacias. I have some Buloke that doesn't even pass the fingernail test (i.e. I can mark it)

Hmmmm ... maybe, but tests were done by official (reputable) testers / bodies. Usually if one gets surprising results (very high or low) one would be inclined to check equipment, wood samples etc and repeat them to verify. Then the results would likely be average of a number of tests results.

The Buloke from western Vic is exceedingly hard (to saw) and would resist the fingernail test. I can't mark it.

Wood hardness has been explored (covered by comments) by many others over the years I see. Most is subjective unlike data provided in reputable reference sources like KR Bootle (Wood In Australia)

On this database Buloke does not even rate .... Top Ten Hardest Woods | The Wood Database

You might find the discussion interesting too

Originally Posted by Euge

Hmmmm ... maybe, but tests were done by official (reputable) testers / bodies. Usually if one gets surprising results (very high or low) one would be inclined to check equipment, wood samples etc and repeat them to verify. Then the results would likely be average of a number of tests results.

The Buloke from western Vic is exceedingly hard (to saw) and would resist the fingernail test. I can't mark it.

It's interesting you mention the WA Buloke, I have heard this before, makes me wonder if that species is a different sub-species. I've discussed this in the past with a few people around SEQ who also think our stuff was relatively soft (compared with other QLD desert species).

Originally Posted by Euge

Wood hardness has been explored (covered by comments) by many others over the years I see. Most is subjective unlike data provided in reputable reference sources like KR Bootle (Wood In Australia)

On this database Buloke does not even rate .... Top Ten Hardest Woods | The Wood Database

You might find the discussion interesting too

Yes very interesting. I agree with testing should be for numerous specimens, in all directions, with an average then being determined. But then I agree it is hard to get the samples necessary due to the rarity of the trees.

MY opinion for the hardest timbers is based on cutting and turning old fence posts and beams but no doubt impacted by silica content. The hardest I have dealt with was an old opal mine beam of Minirichie. Other IWCS members have advised it is not a very hard timber, relatively speaking, so I have been chasing a tree ever since. My last trip to the opal mines around Winton where it is common was stymied by flooding. Just my luck, no rain for 10 years, then I go during flooding.

Originally Posted by dai sensei

The hardest I have dealt with was an old opal mine beam of Minirichie.

Yeah, ya get that when it's been opalised....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Yeah, ya get that when it's been opalised....

Certainly felt that way, sounded similar to my steel anvil when I hit it, mind you over 100 years holding up the mine probably had an affect

Common Name	Latin Name	Source	Density Kg/m3	Janka Hardness kN
Ash Crow's	Flindersia australis	NSW	950	11
Belah	Casuarina cristata	NSW	1150	20
Belian	Eusideroxylon zwageri	Sabah	1000	13
Bloodwood, Brown	E. trachyphloia	NSW	1050	13
Box Grey	E. microcarpa	NSW, VIC	1120	15
Box Grey coast	E. bosistoana	NSW, VIC	1100	13
Box Steel	E. rummeryi	NSW	1130	17
Box White topped	E. quadrangulata	NSW	1030	14
Box Yellow	E. Melliodora	VIC	1100	13
Ebony	Diospyros	Nigeria	1010	14
Gidgee	Acacia cambagei	QLD	1250	19
Greenheart	Ocotea rodiaei	Guyana	970	11
Gum, Blue southern	E. globulus	VIC	900	12
Gum, Grey	E. propinqua/punctata	NSW	1080	14
Gum, Maiden's	E. maidenii	VIC, NSW	950	11
Gum, Red forest	E. tereticornis	QLD, NSW, VIC	1050	12
Gum, Round leafed	E. deanei	NSW	960	12
Gum, Spotted	Corymbia maculata	NSW	950	11
Gum, Yellow	E. leucoxylon	VIC	1010	11
Ironbark, Grey	E. paniculata	NSW	1120	14
Ironbark, Red	E. sideroxylon	NSW, VIC	1130	13
Ironbark. Red broad-leafed	E. fibrosa	NSW	1140	14
Ironbark, Red narrow-leafed	E. crebra	NSW	1090	14
Ironwood, Cooktown	Erythrophleum chlorostachys	NT	1220	13*
Lignum Vitae	Guaiacum	Central America	-	20**
Mahogany, Red	E. resinfera	NSW, QLD	950	12
Mallet, Brown	E. astringens	WA	980	15
Mangrove, Red	Rhizophora mucronata	Papua New Guinea	980	11
Messmate, Gympie	E. cloeziana	QLD	1000	12
Purpleheart	Peltogyne	Guyana	865	11
Rosewood, Indian	Dalbergia	SE Asia	600	12***
Saffronheart		NSW	950	13
Sheoak, Rose	Casuarina torulosa	NSW	920	14
Tuart	E. gomphocephala	WA	1030	11
Turpentine	Syncarpia glomulifera	NSW, QLD	930	12
Wandoo	E. wandoo	WA	1110	15
Wattle, Green	Accacia decurrens	NSW	830	11
Woolybutt	E. longifolia	NSW	1070	11

*Green
**Not clear whether Green or Dry
***Figs.look a little suspect. In the description section density is quoted as 850kg/m3 which is more likely for the hardness.
Hickory (USA), while listed, had no hardness or density data. Modulus of elasticity, modulus of rupture and crushing strength were at the upper end of the scale as may be expected.

All the above data is sourced from Keith Bootle's book "Wood in Australia" and figures quoted are for dry timber except as stated above. May be able to add some Latin names tomorrow (This has now been done). The criteria was that I took anything that was more than 10kN (10000N).Unfortunately quite a number of timbers mentioned in this thread do not feature in the Bootle's book, including most of the Casuarina Oaks.

It should be pointed out that most studies of this nature will concentrate on timbers available in the region where the study is conducted. Timbers that are not commercially available and consequently available in relatively small quantities tend to be excluded from such studies. We can all say "what about such and such timber?" Problem is that the samples for testing have never been available.

Let me know if I have missed anything or mis-quoted. As SWMBO has pointed out at excruciating length, I am not perfect.

Regards
Paul

well done Paul!!
an interesting compilation of density & hardness. )