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  1. #1
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    Default Old 3 Phase Motors

    Hi All..... When I got my Hyco Jointer it came with this big 2.5hp 3 phase motor... As I don't have 3 phase I will be converting it to single phase and probably 1hp....If anyone has a use for this big old motor I am giving it away. Not sure if its working or not but I am sure its really heavy and I don't have room for it.... If no one wants it it will just take it out to the scrap guys.
    IMG_0269a.jpgIMG_0270a.jpgIMG_0271a.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Unfortunate logo ...

    "The Swedish company ASEA, now a part of Asea Brown Boveri, used the swastika in its logo from the 1890s to 1933, when it was removed from the logo."

  4. #3
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    What about seeing if you can add a VFD to the motor and then you get variable speed too.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiroller View Post
    What about seeing if you can add a VFD to the motor and then you get variable speed too.
    id think of that but it is an enormous beast that is an overkill on the Hyco Jointer.. just thought I would offer it if someone had a use for it.... At the moment its just sitting around taking up the little space that I have.
    Gary

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiroller View Post
    What about seeing if you can add a VFD to the motor and then you get variable speed too.
    I wouldn’t recommend it as vfds and these old motors don’t play well as they have reduced power and speed range.

  7. #6
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    We had three 415v hoists installed over the holidays. They had 5pin plugs on them. The guy that installed them wasn’t allowed to wire them up - they had to be wired up by the contract electrician (read cheapest) who proceeded to remove the plugs and hard wire them. One went up but would not come down. Another went up with the down button and down with the up button so he changed the wiring and now only the down button works.
    We now have got cable ties on the switches so they can’t be used while he figures it out.

  8. #7
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    Must be the same bloke who turned up at work 50 years ago with a screwdriver and a claw hammer.
    As he walked in the door he announced, “I am zee electrician”.
    He walked out that afternoon.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I wouldn’t recommend it as vfds and these old motors don’t play well as they have reduced power and speed range.
    Hey Bob.... would those rotary converters be a better option for these old motors or do they have the same issues as the VFDs? I have no 3Ph at my place and have been just changing the motors over to single phase... so was thinking are there other options.
    Gary

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaza58 View Post
    Hey Bob.... would those rotary converters be a better option for these old motors or do they have the same issues as the VFDs? I have no 3Ph at my place and have been just changing the motors over to single phase... so was thinking are there other options.
    Gary
    Good question. I have hooked 3 or 4 of those old motors up to a VFD to see what speeds they can run at. None liked running at much over ~65Hz and seemed to run rapidly out of puff below about 40 Hz. They also clicked, squealed and screeched when pushed at these edges. However, I have only actually Horsepower tested one of those old motors running on a VFD and it seemed to be OK at 50Hz producing slightly more than its rated 1HP.

    So if all you want is to do is run it at 50Hz then it would probably be fine and no different to a RPC.

    The smaller and older the motor is can have an effect as well.
    The tiny (80W) 3P coolant/lube pump motor on my Hercus metal mill is about 50 years old, but the design and materials used in the use suggest it's much older. Although it has ball bearings on the motor shaft ends, as the pump is supposedly constantly submerged in coolant/lube it just uses plain bearings. I converted it to delta (tricky job because the wires were as fine as hair) but it would not free run above about 75 Hz - this means its internal friction is greater than the HP generated. It now delivers coolant/lube from about 40 to 65Hz. It won't run past about 65Hz as it does not produce enough HP to lift the coolant/lube from the floor to the 1.5m high delivery point. I put a fair bit of effort into that pump as when I got it , it was a ball of corrosion and it took a long time to fix. Now I'm using compressed air to generate an aerosol lube from and Automatic Transmission Fluid and kero mixture. This makes much less of a mess than standard coolant/lube and no rust.

  11. #10
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    Thanks Bob.... your knowledge on this subject is awesome.

  12. #11
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    Bob

    It occurs to me that the primary reason for using a VFD in the normal woodworkers situation ( as opposed to industry for example) is purely to convert the three phase to a single phase: The presumption here being that 3PH is unavailable or uneconomic. The variable speed control that is so useful for such machines as metal and woodworking lathes is really a bonus that is not required for most applications. So in that regard any three phase motor that has a suitable connection (wired for delta?) could be considered. In fact when I read back on your post, you have alluded to that.

    Perhaps you can also comment on whether the older motors were sometimes conservatively rated compared to modern motors or whether this is just another old myth (I was going to say old wives tale, but am aware that may be non PC ). They frequently look massive (that's the motors, not the women folk), but I suspect this is not a good indicator.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    It occurs to me that the primary reason for using a VFD in the normal woodworkers situation ( as opposed to industry for example) is purely to convert the three phase to a single phase: The presumption here being that 3PH is unavailable or uneconomic. The variable speed control that is so useful for such machines as metal and woodworking lathes is really a bonus that is not required for most applications. So in that regard any three phase motor that has a suitable connection (wired for delta?) could be considered. In fact when I read back on your post, you have alluded to that.
    Not sure what you mean by "wired for delta".
    A 415V motor already wired as delta will only deliver about half its rated power if run on a 240V SP-240V 3P VFD.
    Most modern 415V star connected motors can be configured as delta (usually in the motor connection box) whereby they then can be used on 240V 3P to develop full power.

    Perhaps you can also comment on whether the older motors were sometimes conservatively rated compared to modern motors or whether this is just another old myth (I was going to say old wives tale, but am aware that may be non PC ). They frequently look massive (that's the motors, not the women folk), but I suspect this is not a good indicator.
    I haven't measured the HP rating of enough of these older motors to feel confident about commenting on this. The other suggestion flying around is that Chinese motors produce less that their rated HP. I've measured the HP ratings of at least 6 of these motors and none have been like this. They may have other issues such as more vibe, shorter bearing lifetime, run hotter, etc but they were all able to meet their HP spec.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    They frequently look massive (that's the motors, not the women folk), but I suspect this is not a good indicator.
    Might just be that they were built to last forever, with size and weight being secondary requirements.

    Sure, the new stuff is smaller and probably more efficient, but I don't think you'll see many motors built today still running in 50+ years on original bearings and full of dust

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by elanjacobs View Post
    Might just be that they were built to last forever, with size and weight being secondary requirements.

    Sure, the new stuff is smaller and probably more efficient, but I don't think you'll see many motors built today still running in 50+ years on original bearings and full of dust
    Swings and roundabouts.
    Increased efficiency also means the newer motors run cooler so they can be TEFC to exclude most dust.
    The MTBW failures of current TEFC motors is ~150,000 hours.
    Running @ 8 hours a day for 5 days a week for 52 weeks a year makes it 72 years.

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