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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Elanora, Qld
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    75
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    15

    Default Advice: Screw drive type

    Hello

    I am after advice on best type of screw drive for wooden boat construction. Choice between Slotted, Philipps or Square drive. From my experience in other type of woodwork, square is the most positive drive with the chance of least damage via burring around drive spot. I am wondering though if square might be less compatible if maintenance requires screw to be removed at a later stage it may be more difficult to get access to a clean square hole rather than other types due to epoxy/paint blockage.

    Would appreciate any opinions.
    Cayman

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Morgan SA
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    191

    Default

    I've not had to clean out square drive heads but I suspect you are right - it might be more difficult.
    Personally I use:
    Phillips if there are lots to be put in - normally with power.
    Slotted if I want a traditional look - normally put in by hand.
    Square if I don't mind the non traditional look and am likely to remove them occasionally.
    If you need a good source for product, look at Bronze & Brass Fasteners Pty Ltd: Wood Screws - Nails - Bolts | Silicon Bronze | Brass | Copper.

    Cheers, Mark

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eustis, FL, USA
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    2,270

    Default

    Removing fasteners is all about technique, once filled with paint, goo and putties. A trick I learned a long time ago is heat. Take an appropriate screwdriver, one you don't like that much anymore and heat it up with a torch, until glowing red. Press this into the head (regardless of type) and melt through whatever is there, until it seats. I usually then try to break free the faster, of course with a different, much cooler screw driver, as the heat also helps break the bond. If there are bunch of fasteners to remove, I'll use a long driver tip and an impact driver. I'll heat up the tip, press it in and slowly let the hammer drive out the screw, at least part way. I can come back with a different tip in another drill or simply change out tips, to wholesale remove the ones that have been partly backed out. Additionally, it's not uncommon to strip out the heads, when backing out a stubborn one, but if you work slow, you can often get enough to back out, before it does, so you can put a vice grip on it and finish the job. Lastly, sometimes, in spite of your best efforts, you have a stripped out head, so out comes the drill and a bolt extractor set. These work well, even on small screws. Work slowly and it'l come out. As a last resort, I have a set of small hole saws, with their pilot bit removed. I place the bit over the fastener head and use it as the guide to plow out the surrounding wood. This is pretty destructive, but sometimes the only way to remove something, because a rotten fastener is preventing it from coming free.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Aberfoyle Park SA
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    63
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    1,787

    Default

    May I suggest that the robustness or otherwise of the drive is probably the least of your concerns.
    Any drive can be cleaned out. A fine pointed metal skewer or 3mm flat screwdriver will dig most gunk out of most drives, including Torx and other exotics.
    As PAR points out, there's also heat, & then there's The Big Stick: Dremel... )
    More important that the screw material be compatible with whatever it is securing, and care taken through its life to keep it dry.
    That way, if you do ever need to remove it, it will tend to come out in one piece rather than two...

    What are you thinking to build?
    Alan J

    Nothing says "Unprofessional Job" so loudly as wrinkles in the duct tape. - B.Spencer

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Elanora, Qld
    Age
    75
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Thanks to all for your advice.

    I have just started on a Shellback dinghy. The frame, molds and transom are fixed on the building jig. I have scarfed the ply for bottom and planks and ready to put together. I have found a supplier of bronze screws etc reasonably priced. Have decided to use square drive in most areas as will be covered and slotted in finish washers on seats where maybe exposed. Am trying to find somewhere to purchase a brass / bronze rudder hanging kit at moment, found some online but well priced. Am new to this so feeling way.

    Cayman

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,402

    Default

    You missed out Pozidrive. They look like Phillips but have a tiny star sort of pattern in the centre. Unlike Phillips the walls (or sides or whatever you want to call them) are parallel with no taper so they don't cam out under torsion. They need a proper driver; when you buy a set of 1/4" screwdriver tips they're the funny looking sort-of-Phillips ones marked "PZ". You can use a Phillips driver in them in the same way that you can use a butter knife as a flat tip screwdriver and you can use a shoe as a hammer.

    Pozidrives are predominantly used in Europe although they are a US invention.

    Saying all that though; I would suggest square drive screws for two reasons: firstly, it is easier to dig out a single large blob of crud/paint/varnish from a square hole than trying to scrape out the inside of a Philips head. Secondly; should you ever strip the head, modern screw extractors like Grabbit's dig in quicker.

    Plus I think they look cooler.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tallahassee FL USA
    Age
    82
    Posts
    4,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PAR View Post
    As a last resort, I have a set of small hole saws, with their pilot bit removed. I place the bit over the fastener head and use it as the guide to plow out the surrounding wood. This is pretty destructive, but sometimes the only way to remove something, because a rotten fastener is preventing it from coming free.
    A plug cutter is less destructive than a hole saw, even a small one, and can be almost the same size as the screw head. Somewhat easier to aim too, because the rim can be set directly on the wood.

    Cheers,
    Joe
    Of course truth is stranger than fiction.
    Fiction has to make sense. - Mark Twain

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cayman View Post
    Hello

    I am after advice on best type of screw drive for wooden boat construction. Choice between Slotted, Philipps or Square drive. From my experience in other type of woodwork, square is the most positive drive with the chance of least damage via burring around drive spot. I am wondering though if square might be less compatible if maintenance requires screw to be removed at a later stage it may be more difficult to get access to a clean square hole rather than other types due to epoxy/paint blockage.

    Would appreciate any opinions.
    Cayman
    IME square drives are easy enough to clean out. Easier than Phillips or Pozi. You can clean out either of the latter, but they're more vulnerable to small pieces of crud left behind. Square drives will be usable even if there is a bit of crap in the bottom. My 2c.

    A bit of heat helps too, as others have mentioned.
    You know you're making progress when there's sawdust in your coffee.

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