Thread: Building a Waller TS540

Fantastic to see her sail Rob!!!!

Big congrats to you and all involved.

Quick note ot two;

A couple of quick fixes for the halyards.
1. Replace the Ronstan cleats with Harken ones. They are ally and have a heap better holding power.
or 2. Replace with horn cleats
or 3. Put 2:1 halyards on. This reduces the load at the cleat by half.

Also you can see now why Scotty chose to get rid of the aft beam and have the traveller on the floor.

Gives me some more inspiration to get moving on mine. Although hard to get much done when it's 35deg here. So bloody hot in that shed!!!!

Mez

Thanks Richard, yes, those moments are worth bottling. In a way it wouldn't matter if I never saw the boat again, having sat between my two boys having so much fun. Some moments are keepers.

Thanks too Mez. We'll probably just go up to an 8mm diameter halyard and see how it goes before we replace the cleats. There are spare cam cleats on the back of the cabin. The problem only occurred for a little while till we noticed and rectified it.
As to the mainsheet, that's mainly about the fact that it's so nice to have three crew side by side, it'll be easier if the sheet is in front of the middle one, so the helmsman doesn't have to go under the line when tacking. I'm sure I'd adapt to its present position if single-handing. That beam though was my own addition. Mike designed it to be in the middle of the cockpit. I wanted less clutter and a visual barrier aft that could also be a handle, steady, and maybe backrest. It works really well in that regard, even just keeping a small dog on a leash within the cockpit!

In general, I'd like to say formally just how good it has been for me to have the input, encouragement and support from those of you who posted on this thread. Without that response posting feels like showing off, or grandstanding or talking to one's self. But when it all becomes a conversation it feels much more interesting than it would if it was just a technical elaboration of how the boat was built. -'Course I'm stating the bleeding obvious, but I'm genuinely grateful.

You timed that very nicely. I think you will enjoy the Xmas break!

MIK

Originally Posted by rob540

In general, I'd like to say formally just how good it has been for me to have the input, encouragement and support from those of you who posted on this thread. Without that response posting feels like showing off, or grandstanding or talking to one's self. But when it all becomes a conversation it feels much more interesting than it would if it was just a technical elaboration of how the boat was built. -'Course I'm stating the bleeding obvious, but I'm genuinely grateful.

From my point of view, it has been pretty special seeing a bona fide Work of Art take shape while being able to
interact with the artist in regular english. It's been a delight sharing a part of the journey with you. I hope you'll
post your using the boat stories & pictures.

Hey MIK - time for another sub-forum ? - "Wooden Boating - sea stories & other lies" or similar.

a happy & safe christmas to you and yours, Rob.

AJ

Too generous, as usual AJ, but thanks.

Our first beach sail was cut short as a consequence of my under-engineering the attachment of the rear mast crutch. Nice idea, using the rudder pintles to support the crutch- one device serving two roles- but a long, pot-holed and corrugated road to the beach (about 20km) managed to make me feel really stupid when the rudder began to flop because the bottom pintle had rattled a bit loose on the road. I mention all this because someone might look at the photo of the set-up before the first sail and be tempted to do likewise- and maybe they could if the rudder fittings are set in really solidly.

So after negotiating a low tide, sandy, shallow beach, launching with the ute wet to the bottom of the doors, and all the potential for calamity that goes with all that, we floated her over the sand bars (she draws very little and is a champion in that respect), we set the sails beautifully and sailed off in glory into the shore break, over the waves, confidently towards Bass Strait when the rudder misbehaved, and the mood changed. Plan B was called for, so we de-rigged and pretended that we just had a power boat. She handled that brilliantly, even surfing back in, white water breaking and frothing in the cockpit and flowing straight out again.

Now Plan B amounted to a better rudder mount and a crutch that stays well away, unconnected to the hardware.

To windward the boat has the expected measure of 'weather helm', which is reassuring because if I loose the tiller in a blow she'd round up into the wind. How much is enough or too much weather helm seems to be debatable. When beating, my inclination is too spill a little air from the sails in a gust, or bear away a bit, but my sons prefer to go steeper, faster (debatable) harder- and at that point, with the gunnels under there is a fair amount of pull on the helm. My preliminary thoughts are that the weather helm in that event is self-induced if it seems too much. I'd rather just sail a little more level. But I'm an old fert....The theory (I stand to be corrected) seems to be that excessive heel presents an asymetrical water line, 'lifting' the hull to windward. Anyway, however you look at it, the boat goes in all directions faster than I expected it would, even under 5hp of motor. On a run the wake is a mass of glorious happy bubbles. That (lack of) transom makes getting in and out a breeze on the beach too. Next week I hope to test out the new mainsheet block position.

Spot on with the assumption about increasing weather helm when the boat heels. Not only does the boats shape when heeled increase weather helm, but weaher helm actually increases weather helm when heeled!!
Sound confusing?? Well not really.............when the boat is heeled the rudder acts not only to turn the boat but acts like a horizontal trim tab. As the amount of rudder needed increases, the rudder acts like a trim tab and pushed the nose down vertically which in turn causes the boat to round up more.

Hence the term FLAT = FAST

That said your sons are right when they say to head up in a gust. Pulling off the breeze in a gust will only make her heel more.

Keep the mainsheet trimmed on hard so the top leech telltails are flowing 50% of the time and ease down the traveller as the gust hits. This will keep the boat driving fwd off the leech of the main. If the boat feels like it stalls when you ease the traveller then your jib car is probably too far fwd and closing the slot when the traveller is eased.

Hope that all makes sense!!

Oh and by the way, if you can't tell I trim main on the yacht I race on!!!!

Mez

That's a fantastic and very helpful reply Mez- thanks.
I still have to think about which end is the pointy one, let alone which way we are going. But I got tangled in terminology there too. I meant to say that my inclination was to spill wind (as opposed to passing it) or ease the tiller- ie let the boat go to windward- not bear away as I put it, which has the opposite meaning. Got to keep separate in my mind the difference between what I'm doing to the tiller as opposed to what that causes the bow to do!

Now when you say 'ease down the traveller'- do you mean let it go to leeward? And would that be to stiffen the sail and take shape out of it? I'm thinking that a flatter shape is more efficient in a gust...I've got to admit that at this point the traveller adjustments only get attention when I feel confident about everything else. Learning new skills in middle age is a lot slower than it used to be
(It would be so much easier if the water was closer and I could just spend a few solid days practising skills. Currently there is too much time between sessions to keep it all fresh.)
Perhaps I should fill my shed with water and set up a big fan at one end??

Originally Posted by Boatmik

You timed that very nicely. I think you will enjoy the Xmas break!

MIK

Thanks Mik- but I'm not sure how intentional that was....but for once I was glad not to have rushed things just to get things finished and on the water. Now if I could just kidnap you or Mez or Mike for a couple of weeks I'd probably learn to sail properly in no time

Good to see you are getting out in the boat Rob.

Couple of little things re weather helm, first thing as Mez said a flat boat is a fast boat but I still like to sail heeled a little it's more comfortable and easler to see.

When the breeze gets up swing the centre plate back a bit that will help counter act the w/helm.

Another thing I have done on the TS's I've had is rake the mast forward by an inch or so. We all tend to sail with too much weight aft which increases weather helm from mast rake. You can adjust by eye or use a plumb, play around with some settings and see what difference it makes.

Have fun
Mike

Thanks Mike- nice to hear from you. That's a great point about weight aft, particularly the CB adjustment. I'll try that tomorrow. I have been tweeking the mast forward a bit, but the helm isn't too heavy, I think it's just testosterone at work In fact it is really a delight.
Look forward to Eureka news.
Rob

Rob, a good basic sail trim guide.

Gus Farrar's Guide to Proper Sail Trim Sheet

http://www.bottrell.ca/BoatDocs/Nort...im%20Guide.pdf

Obviously you have no backstay or spinnaker pole (yet!) but it's a good start!!

Mez

Good one Mez- that's a very compact and helpful list. Have printed, will study...

Now this post is not about building the boat anymore, but how it feels to have used it a few times. But first, a few minor human, family things- which are what the whole boat idea was about for me anyway. Because this last sail was in good temperatures and easily manageable winds we had a perfect, long day on the water. My wife and daughter were well-instructed in jib control and crewing skills by one of our sons, while I was able therefore, just to relax and concentrate on helm and main.

We did one long beat from a place near central Geelong down to a little bay at the northern tip of Corio Bay called Limeburner's Lagoon, following a 30 footer well set and under full sail. At one point we were making ground on her until I moved to a slightly more windward course so as not to go into his dirty air. He sharpened up at that, but I was pleased just to match his boat speed. We anchored in the lagoon and had a picnic lunch on board and a couple of us swam. Coming back we did some terrific tacking and gybing drills, using a lot of the bay just to get the feel of her. The hero of the tacking was our little dog, who in his efforts to stay right with my wife, discovered the cockpit lockers....lying contentedly in the one under her, and then trotting across the deck to the other one when we tacked. These are now known as 'Billy's Lockers".

I couldn't be happier with the design of this boat. Mike is to be congratulated on the sophistication of its arrangements, its solid, capable feel- very important when beginners are getting used to wind power and all its peculiarities- its useful storage spaces, good CB pin design, excellent cockpit for a group, good planing characteristics, completely dry ride so far- it will take real double reef weather for any spray to come on board. When I wash the boat off there is very little salt on deck. The bridge deck is a real winner too. It feels like a bigger boat than it is. There is virtually no wasted material in her construction. The build method requires no moulds or formers other than the bulkheads and one extra small piece of 18 mm low grade ply.

The boat has done everything I hoped of it so far- sailing, motoring, swimming/snorkelling off the back...although I still haven't put line on my rod yet, but fishing is another story.

The new mainsheet block and small teak rail down the centre-line works really well. The rail gives something to push against when hiking, and we now won't need straps. I can now imagine the day when I'll be competent enough to single hand her, but handling the dropping of the big main alone is still a bit daunting till I arrange some lazy jacks. So she has rewarding potential for between one and four active sailors plus passengers if needed. That is a wonderful thing in a boat under five and a half metres, I think.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpU1kH4Qzi8"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

Beautiful boat! Nice to see a family enjoying themselves.

Hey Mike,

Thought I'd just let you know Scotty has moved home to Tassie with his boat. After a long drive they arrived safely.

First sail on the Tamar was in 15-25 knots and although Scotty thinks the mast needs a bit more rake to induce a little weather helm he is very happy.
Managed 5.3 knots to windward and an amazing 10.7 knots with the wind over the stb quarter.
Also said something that might be useful to you. When reaching the boat likes to be flat to get up and planning. He said he eased the main right out and then once she was flat she took off!!!

Cheers,

Mez