Thread: Epoxy glue.........

Hi Reiner, sounds to me as though the creamy one is a filling glue, a filler or just a thickened epoxy. Hard to know without product details. But what you want for boat building purposes is a thin pure epoxy to wet out the surfaces for a good penetrating bond, to which you then add your filler to give it gap filling properties. EG, first wet out the surfaces, then add the filler to the mix, then apply some thickened mix onto one of the surfaces.
General experience seems to be that glues with filler already added won't give as good a bond. The propriety brands Boatcote, West system FGI etc all have basic epoxy liquids and various hardeners and fillers to make them appropriate for a variety of applications.
Hope that's what you need
Rob

Oils just aint oils and epoxy just aint epoxy. The term can be, and is, used for a huge variety of products. Some are suited for mucking about in boats, some aint. Not all epoxy is designed for use as a glue.

Do you have a brand name on these tubs? I would be mixing a test sample and testing it's fit for purpose which is???

Sorry that was a lazy post.
The first mix was a 1:1 Epox-e-Glue from Boat Craft in two pots one with a red lid and the other with a white lid.
The other glue I made from West System 105 with a 206 hardener and 411 microspere blend mixed to a creamy glue.
I fitted a led keel to a wooden keel and used the West System as a glue and screws into the wood. Just wondering what of the two glue options would be the better one.
Cheers
Reiner

Not familiar with the 'Epox-e-Glue'. I've learned that using microspheres to thicken epoxy for sanding is the bomb.. lovely to sand and fair.. my fav.

Try to make it thick enough to stand up though... those pesky little balls just don't grab hold of each other and the whole lot slumps like a really yucky ice-cream. This makes it easy to sand and useless for glueing.

Whatever you particulate you use to thicken the epoxy needs to have lots of jagged little edges for the epoxy to grab onto and not let go. Flumed silica, cotton mulch, wood flour are all good additives for glueing. PAR will probably be able to list many more (and how they taste).

The better they are for glue, it seems the worse they are for sanding though

Yep, balloons and micro spheres are not what you want to make glue out of. They don't taste bad, but are really intended for making light weight fairing mixtures, not glue.

Shredded cotton, wood flour, silica, calcium malate, talc and milled 'glass fibers are the usual suspects for glues. Some of these materials will be in most batches.

West System's product line: 403 - shredded cotton and silica, 404 - calcium malate and silica, 405 - cotton fibers, silica and a touch of wood flour for color, 406 - silica, 407 - phenol balloons and talc, 410 - plastic micro spheres and talc.

I'm fairly sure the plastic in 410 is polystyrene, which is why you can't use it with polyester or vinylester resin systems.

No, you can't use either or hardener with a specific resin. Each resin will need a specific hardener in the ratio it's designed for.

Most 1:1 epoxies are what we call "unrefined" which for the most part means they haven't done much to the hardener. Good marine epoxies will usually be 2:1 or higher. West System has several resin/hardener ratios (by weight) and several product offerings. 105/205 and 105/206 are 5:1, 105/207 is 3.7:1 and 105/209 is 3.5:1 There's also G-Flex and Six10 resin systems too.

The best advice you can take is to log onto the web site for the particular resin you are using and look over their user's guides. West System and System Three have very good application and use guides.

Howdy,

The bote cote epoxy-e-glue is a general woodworking glue - prethickened for general woodwork.

I would not trust it for boatbuilding or aircraft. The general boatbulding resin hardener system from either Bote Cote or WEST or any of the other reputable companies will work much better than this general woodworking product.

Best wishes
Michael.

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy,

The bote cote epoxy-e-glue is a general woodworking glue - prethickened for general woodwork.

I would not trust it for boatbuilding or aircraft. The general boatbulding resin hardener system from either Bote Cote or WEST or any of the other reputable companies will work much better than this general woodworking product.

Best wishes
Michael.

I am the WA Agent for Bote-Cote and we have been selling and using their 1:1 Epox-E-Glue for marine use for over 10 years. I couldn't count the number of boats, both sail and power that are built, repaired or have something held together with this stuff.

When used properly we have never had an issue with it being marine. That said as it is thicker it pays to score or rough up the glueing edge, especially on harder timbers that have been thicknesed. I also put a thinned down 2:1 Bote Cote mix on the glueing edge first when using very absorbent timber, eg. recycled Oregen, as I find this stops the timber absorbing too much of the glue and drying the joint out.

Mez

Hi Mez,

I am glad you reported this experience. I used to work at Duckflat and ended up being an agent in Sydney for a bit too.

We had a couple of bad experiences with home boatbuilders using the Epox-E-glue. Two is hardly a statistical sample!

But enough to be cautious.

If you have used and seen it used so often and found it OK then I completely accept.

Thanks heaps for getting back.

MIK

NP Mik, yeah sounds like the issues with a pre-thickened glue like Epox-E-Glue were pretty much the same. Ours was with some Jarrah that had a VERY hard layer that was compressed with the thickneser.

So I guess some advice to anyone using this or similar products would firstly to make sure the surface is scores and/or sanded, especially if it has been through a thickneser and to be aware of glue soaking into your timber too much and leaving the glue joint too dry.

Cheers,

Mez

Agree completely.

Without actually knowing what happened with the two projects we heard of I had thought both of the surface of the wood being crushed or compressed with non sharp tools or just not enough glue used in the first place.

This does look more likely if others have had CONSISTENT success with the same product.

Thanks for the extra data Mezaire

MIK

I used bote cot epoxy glue to build a ply kayak which was temporarily screw fixed until the epoxy set then the screws removed, there are only approx a dozen mechanical fasteners in the whole boat and it has held together perfectly. To prevent a 'dry joint' in areas of end grain etc I pre coated with bote cote epoxy resin before using the epoxy glue.
MG

Howdy MG,

There has been no problem with general Bote Cote, we were wondering about their Epox-e-glue which is one of their products.

Cheers

MIK

G'day Mik
The pre thickened Epox-e-glue (1-1 mix) was what I used for all gluing and as I said I had no drama, I also used several coats of the 2 - 1 bote cote epoxy resin to encapsulate the finished product.
Cheers MG