Thread: Epoxy Tips - Re-Use and Clean Up

I am well into applying several coats of Bote Cote epoxy to the bottom of my boat and have developed a complete use and dispose regime for all of the equipment involved. I found my early attempts at clean up an ineffectual waste of time and money.
I keep my costs down (probably lower than acetone) by using disposable drink cups and food trays from Crazy Clarks as mixing cups and roller trays, disposable foam rollers fron Bunnings and initially cheap foam brushes from Crazy Clarks. When my supply of foam brushes disappeared from the shelves I visited a Clark Rubber store and bought some suitable foam which I cut down to fit into a reusable (wooden of course) brush handle that I custom made.
The jury is probably still out on this being enviromentally friendly but I don't use any solvents which must and would eventually end up somewhere.

Vinegar works quite well for me - I've been reusing the same mixing cup and other bits for ages.

With nitrile gloves on...

1) Excess gets scooped off with a paper towel, goes in bin.
2) Slurp vinegar into container, swirl around, hit with paper towel (same one as before if it was pretty clean).
3) If still dirty, add more vinegar, leave it to stand while you clean other bits.
4) Rinse in soapy water.
5) Vinegar smell in workshop makes you want fish and chips. 'What's for dinner?' problem solved!

You can take the nitrile gloves off for the fish and chips part.

(Vinegar is a mild acid - epoxy needs to be alkaline to cure. Give it an acid environment and it won't cure, however once cured it is quite resistant to acid attack.)

Vinegar is also better for getting uncured epoxy off your skin since it stops the reaction rather than diluting the epoxy - acetone will first defat your skin (removing the oils which form a protective barrier) then provide a vehicle to carry chemicals with long scary sounding names through your skin.

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

Can someone please tell me how to PERMANENTLY turn off that annoying "Automatically retrieve titles from external links" setting! If I don't think the URL by itself is sufficient, I'm perfectly capable of creating a properly formatted hyperlink all by myself.

When I want to create a link with the title of my choosing, I type the title text I want, select it with the cursor, then click on the insert link icon and paste the url into the box that appears. Works quickly and gets the title to the url I want.

eg here is a link to google with my title showing here.

On using epoxy, I mix all my glue directly in a small ziplock bag. Resin in, hardener in, close the bag, give it a good massage, open again, add the glue powder, close and massage again, cut a small hole in a bottom corner and pipe out the glue. Works for straight resin in small batches too - just squeeze the resin out on the job quickly after mixing in the bag, use the roller to spread it.

Ian

Originally Posted by IanHowick

When I want to create a link with the title of my choosing, I type the title text I want, select it with the cursor, then click on the insert link icon and paste the url into the box that appears.

That's extra effort tho', and if I want to use the URL as my link it's kinda redundant!


/professional writer's raw nerve rant on

I'd just like the board software to leave my @$&^!!@#$**&!ing text exactly as I #$%@!!ing type it unless I explicitly grant it permission to seek textual content other than what I have supplied - I find many URLs much more informative and useful than the often useless names of pages.

As an extreme example, I like knowing that a link is located on http ://www. hubpages. com much, much more than I like knowing that the linked page is called Intersting article u will be likey to read (when it should really be called something like Interesting article from someone elses' site now on festering spam hellhole with a higher googlerank.)

The solution waiting in my 'when I blow a fuse' box is to mangle the URL so it can't be parsed by the board software, but this means that readers have to copy/paste/de-obfusticate to follow the link.

/professional writer's raw nerve rant off

Back on the topic ...

Vinegar is good for cleanup of skin or hard tools that can be dried effectively. A trace of vinegar can make your next mix of epoxy sit there and stare at you without any intention of going off.

If you want to use a brush (bristle type) the next day it is probably worth soaking it in acetone overnight and giving it a very good shakeout the next day immediately before use.

Reusing items does have some risk for both process and cost. There is always some small chance of contamination of some kind or another which may result in a fish eyed (pitted) surface or something else going wrong. This can cost a lot more in time, effort and heartache than a few extra mixing containers or brushes.

Also to make bristled brushes work better with epoxy cut down the bristles so they are about 25mm long - it matches the viscosity of the epoxy better so you can control the amount that goes on the surface and also force resin through glass tape better.

As far as settings - forum settings rather than epoxy settings ... have a good look through userCP (user control panel) in the top left of the menu at the top of the page. If it is there then you can do some things to modify it more to your tastes.

If you write down some text before adding the link to the text it will accept what you call it rather than trying to parse it into the title of the target page so you can call a link whatever you want. Also if you use the "Reply" rather than the "Quick Reply" option you can turn off the parsing before you post. That is a bit of a pain, but it indicates there is probably a setting in the User Control Panel.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Back on the topic ...

Vinegar is good for cleanup of skin or hard tools that can be dried effectively. A trace of vinegar can make your next mix of epoxy sit there and stare at you without any intention of going off.

If you want to use a brush (bristle type) the next day it is probably worth soaking it in acetone overnight and giving it a very good shakeout the next day immediately before use.

Reusing items does have some risk for both process and cost. There is always some small chance of contamination of some kind or another which may result in a fish eyed (pitted) surface or something else going wrong. This can cost a lot more in time, effort and heartache than a few extra mixing containers or brushes.

Also to make bristled brushes work better with epoxy cut down the bristles so they are about 25mm long - it matches the viscosity of the epoxy better so you can control the amount that goes on the surface and also force resin through glass tape better.

Yup, vinegar works, so does dishwashing liquid and warm water, or as I found out by accident, household ammonia also.

Brushes with uncured epoxy on them can be stored in the freezer a long time. I still have in the freezer the same brush and foam roller that I first used 5 days ago. Just wrap it in a plastic bag and when you need it again, leaving it in the bag just sit it for a minute in a mug of hot water. Of course, it's not forever and it will eventually go off, but it works!

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Brushes with uncured epoxy on them can be stored in the freezer a long time

It's epoxy ice-cream time, everybody - get stuck into it!!!

Don't ask about the superglue that got spilled in the freezer....the less said the better...I suggest a cheap plastic container as insurance!!!!!

Thanks for all the tips guys. Plenty to try out. It's frustrating at the moment as I'm experimenting with sample joints so using little bits of epoxies and glues here and there and to throw everything away after 2 mins work it painful. The cheapest brushes in Bunnings are $2 each si I have to carefully plan out what I am going to do. It will be better once I start building properly though.

What about the brushes/rollers and pots going off between wet-on-wet coats? Do I just have multiple pots ready to use and sacrafice brushes/rollers. If I have to wait 25mins between coats then it will have gelled enough to not be reusable but cleaning up seems to risk contamination which I don't want. Let it go off completely means a lot of sanding and time between coats.

the putting the brush/roller in the freezer works really well between wet-on-wet coats.
One of the other SA forum members picked up a heap of 1" chip brushes & mini
rollers for a fraction of you're paying at Bunnies. Not sure of the details - might
have been an on-line bulk purchase (cartons of 1,000 or summat).

I use the 'proper' BoteCote solvent for the brushes I want to re-use.
Don't know or care what's in it - it works much better than vinegar or acetone.
Washes out in soapy water well, and a little goes a long way.
Compared with single-using $1 & $2 brushes, despite its relatively high price,
its effectiveness & ease of use make the branded solvent great value in my book.
cheers
AJ

AJ I can supply you with the formula for BoteCote brush cleaner. It's three commonly available solvents and I mix them up by the gallon for a fraction of the price of store bought pre-mix stuff.

In this same vain, if you're going to play with sticky stuff, more so then a hobby, then you need to learn about bulk purchasing. If you buy a case of brushes, roller sleeves, gloves, mixing cups, etc. you will get them at a fraction of the single unit price. As a mater of fact, if you can find others who aslo want to save big dollars, then form a coop and see if you can hit the "first price break". Every product sold in quantity will reward bulk purchases with volume discounts.

As an example I can buy a 2" chip brush at the local hardware store for $1.50 or I can buy a case of 24 chip brushes for $10, which makes them $.41 each. If I buy a "lot" which is a box of a 10 cases the price drops to about $.23 each! Of course having 240 chip brushes floating around the shop is a bit silly, so I buy with several other people and we split up the lot. The last time I did this was about 3 months ago and I got 100 chip brushes for about $23, while the other two I did this with got 100 and 40 brushes respectively.

The same can be done with most all of the things you buy. I can buy a gallon of epoxy for about $62 at the full retail price. I buy with several buddies and we get a huge shipment of goo. It comes on a truck and has to be off loaded with a fork lift, but I spend about $27 per gallon this way! So, if 60% off the price is worth driving over to a friends shop (who has a fork lift) and loading up the truck with several gallons of goo on the cheap isn't something you can do, well . . .

I mention this because once you ruin a difficult laminate, because you attempted to cut a corner, saving a brush or mixing tub or cup, you'll think twice about attempts to salvage a $.23 brush. I do use and reuse mixing trays, but I don't go crazy. When it reaches it's limit, it's tossed and a new one is pulled out.

Clean up is generally a two step operation, getting the bulk of the mess up and in the trash and film cleaning. Paper towels and acids will get the bulk of spills, drips, messes and goo'd up tools mostly cleaned up. Pretty much any acid will do, orange juice, xylene, vinegar, your aunt Millie's cherry pie filling, vodka, actetone, etc. Some of these will actually "cut" the goo, while others will just stop the reaction and act as a lubricant as it's wiped up.

Solvents will cause you considerable harm if used on your skin so stick with vinegar, then soap and water. On tools and surfaces, solvents are the ticket if you want them spot less. This is the film pick up stage of the cleaning process, the bulk is gone, but a film of goo remains. Denatured alcohol is fairly safe for skin contact. Mixed with acetone 50/50 it's not bad at cutting an epoxy film on tools and surfaces. If you mix 20% toluene, with 50% denatured alcohol, with 30% acetone, you'll have a really good de-filming mixture (you paying attention AJ). If you have really goo'd yourself up good and need to use chemicals, then use a 10% isopropyl alcohol and 90% mineral spirits mixture. This is fairly benign and the oil will prevent the alcohol from acting like a freeway to your blood stream.

One of the best habits a builder can get into is using a "barrier" cream. This is a hand lotion that dries to a coating, which protects body parts. It's not perfect, but it's a great stop gap measure, especially for those that are sensitive to alkaline products.

Par, very informative post - thank you.

With the "mineral spirits", would that be what we call mineral turpentine (guessing so from your reference to oils) - or is it more likely to be "white spirit" (dry cleaning fluid)?

Turpentine is a distilled liquid gotten primarly from pine trees. Very often the lable will say Pine Gum Turpentine. Mineral turpentine is a distillate of petroleum and a much cheaper version of the original wood turpentine. To directly answer your question, yes, mineral turpentine and mineral spirits are the same thing. White spirits is another name for mineral spirits, though from a technical stand point it can be made differently (white spirits is paraffin derived) and was used in the USA up until a little over a half a century ago as a dry cleaning liquid.

As a rule the three are interchangeable, except in regard to use on your skin, where only mineral spirits can be tolerated. This too isn't the best thing you can put on your skin, but I'm not suggesting bathing in it, but in small amounts to remove toxic materials, without concern that it'll act as a vehicle to your blood stream, this is an option. Wood turps will act as an oils and lipid drying agent, making it very easy for epoxy, particularly if partly dissolved and solvent diluted, it get into your blood stream

In short, if you are of breeding age and don't want three headed babies, then protection is a real concern. If you're a hobbyist, then you probably will not have an issue, but a boat builder or craftsman will if they play with enough epoxy. In general, try not to eat it, in spite of it's good taste, don't rub it in your eyes, hair or on your man tool while taking a wizz, it's not good in your ears, though does leave a lovely soothing sensation, and mostly just keep it off you by working neatly.

PAR is quite correct in his post.

"REAL" turpentine, here in Aus, is only available in art supply stores and is very expensive.

Reading from a bottle of Mineral Turpentine, I have in front of me, the label states. 100% LIQUID HYDROCARBONS UN 1300.

For all/most of your uncured clean up needs, Mineral Turpentine is O.K.
Use precautions as per PAR'S post.

I use a lot of methylated spirits in my work. Mainly because I think there is less possibility of any form of residue. I may be over cautious here, but what the hell, I would rather know what I have done is the best job I can do.

Good Luck.

Paul.

Excellent replies from everyone. I think I need a bit of experimenting from my part to see what I'm comfortable with and where I minimise the waste without compromising the job. I'm nt going to be using it forever but I think I'll be doing small bits and pieces so the throw out could be getting numerous until I am doing the final coats. Thanks again.