Thread: Part way

awwwwww, shucks . . .

Originally Posted by Asrainox

By the way, Thanks a lot PAR, for your particularly consistent, accurate and helpful advice on everything you pop your head into here. Nobody ever agrees on everything, but your advice is always well considered.

Well said.

A quick query about epoxy and painting the bilges.

I'm going to be epoxy coating the whole interior to seal the plywood with 3 coats of West system, but I wasn't sure about whether it will be necissary to paint the bilge area underneath the plywood floor. The bilges are getting turned into air-tight compartments for buoyancy, and they'll never see daylight again.

The bilge/flotation chambers will be accessable via some ventilation hatches to prevent "Oilcanning" and allow them to breathe out between sails. The interior space will be coated with epoxy before the ply floors go in on top, which will also be pre-coated with epoxy prior to fixing down.

There shouldn't be much of a way for UV or moisture to get to it, and I just wondered whether leaving it paint-less is an issue?

Thoughts?

All the more essential to pox coat them !
Unless of course you can absolutely, positively guarantee that they will never,
ever get wet. Or damp.

The more readily aired your dry areas are, like inside the cabin, the less they
need sealing. My #1231 was mostly bare timber inside the cabin. Only places
it was showing signs of mould or rot was under the floor-boards & cockpit floor
where it was less well ventilated.

cheers
AJ

Hi AJ,

I'll definitely be coating the entire underfloor with a generous amount of Pox, but i wondered whether the coats of white paint I'd had planned would be necissary for the out-of-sight areas, that's all.

I get the feeling that 3x poxy coat, 1 primer, 1 undercoat, and 2 topcoats is a lot to put on an area that will never see daylight. Chances are, the waterproofing isn't going to improve by adding paint on top of epoxy anyway, and since UV is no problem....

Just trying to save $ now I think. I bought a bandsaw. Couldn't really afford it. Glad I did though, but I'm trying to shave $ off where it's not needed and where caution would make me over-build things.

I never paint these types of areas. A lot of folks do and the paint is an extra layer of protection, but it also can hide issues, until you have a much bigger one. For example and the primary reason I don't paint the bilge. Lets say you've not painted the bilge and one of the planking fasteners missed a frame (it happens). Well, the fastener will let moisture into the planking and it'll leave a visible stain, but if it's covered with paint, you will not notice this ,untill the paint bubbles up and the wood has rot in it. This is why I don't paint the enclosed spaces in a boat. You'll see "issues" before they become bigger issues.

This said, lots of enclosed spaces can be very dark, especially with some species of wood, so you need color (white) just to see what's in the bottom of the locker. In this case I use white pigment, mixed into the epoxy. You can apply it so it's translusent or opaque, I prefer translucent, again so I can see what's going on under it. This lightens up the cabinet, locker or bilge enough to see, but permits looking at the wood too.

Lastly, if you do paint these enclosed spaces, then seal it up with a deck plate or what ever, how are you going to get in there and repaint the area? Lets face it, paint needs to be renewed every so often. If you have a painted bilge or enclosed area, at some point you're going to have to come back, sand the dieing paint and recoat. Hanging upside down through a foredeck hatch is a really lousy way, to have to spend an afternoon with a paint brush. The tinted epoxy technique does away with this. You get a painted area, but it'll remain that way for the life of the boat.

Hi As
Congrats on the turning. That paint job looks fantastic. Once upon a time I built a TS16 and sprayed it but I reckon your finish looks just as good.
Regarding your issue of whether or not to paint the pox. I did the bouyancy tank thing too and poxed the entire insides as you are planning. I always felt a bit uncomforatble with leaving the caps off so I'd at least paint within 300 mm of the inside of the tank so sun doesnt shine on it. I agree with PAR its a lot of wasted money and grunt painting unseen areas. I did have lockers under the cockpit seats which I painted entirely though.
Any q's just give me a hoy. your onto the most interesting bit now and there a few options open to you.
I also agree with the earlier reply about minimising weight as far as builtins go too, especially at the rear of the boat.

Regards Andrew

For what it's worth, most traditionally built boats had shellac or varnished bilges and inclosed spaces, again for the reasons I stated previously (so you can see what's happening with the wood). UV inhibitors in varnish make it a logical choice over epoxy, while retaining the ability to see what's going on.

YOUR E-POXY COATS WILL DO ALL THAT IS NEEDED , ULTRAVIOLET CANNOT GET INTO THE BILGE IN ENOUGH QTY TO BE AN ISSUE.

My Brother in-law finished all his boats in straight e-poxy on the interiors and bilges were not painted, and he is a semi-professional builder, and an absolute perfectionist...

Jeff

Hi All,

I'm reviving the thread here after a fair hiatus. A new job, and a number of changes in other things have stopped me from posting online quite so often, but hasn't stopped work on the boat! I draw ever closer to the finish, piece by piece, and am slowly getting a little better in my working methods. I'm still no neat-freak, but I am definitely starting to appreciate a clean environment more as time goes on.

First, I'll catch you all up!

I'll skip a boring part, and this is my cabin floor. I added a few complications: I sealed the bilge with 3 coats of pox, and put in a watertight sealed floor. I extended the bunks and re-planned them for comfort and aesthetic reasons, and as part of this I installed two small wells to get to the centreboard pin. I installed a half-frame behind the wells, stiffening up that part of the floor, and making the well smaller overall as it's unlikely to ever hold much water. I also installed a sealed piping system running from the well to the rear transom drains and the fore compartments to get any water out without wetting the sealed areas. Pedantic much?





This is the area cabin floatation chambers, sealed in and watertight, and with a lovely New-Guinea Rosewood trim covering all my ply edges. The edges where floor meets hull are joined with epoxy fillets for extra strength, and I'm still to add in some inspection ports for ventilation and access in case they ever do get wet. And the cabin structure is going up.




Ta Daaaa...



The rear cabin bulkhead framing going in. Again, I've modified the opening to suit a more cruising (and therefore enclosable) oriented focus, as this is a part that would be difficult at best to modify later.



Cabin roof getting pre-painted with masked off areas for glue lines.



And the next two is where we are. Floor supports in, piping for water removal from cabin in. The next step is to seal the bilge with pox, as this too is going to be enclosed buoyancy, and needs/wants to be waterproof-ish. Once that is done, floor can go in, and cockpit seats, anchor well and rear deck can be installled and we're practically there! Except for...well....everything else you need to do. I still need a rudder, for instance....

My. Dear. Lordy.

Might I say that at this point during the build - I loathe epoxy.

I'm busily applying sealing coats of epoxy to the bilge area with a foam roller and foam pads made from that same foam the disposable brushes are made from (I have an industrial source for it that gives it to me for free, in big 1ft cubes.)

Is there any better way to do this? With the stringers running fore and aft along the ply, it makes it a real hassle to go over evenly and as it's really an older design, there's a lot of obstructions that make applying the pox difficult.

I'm sticking at it anyway, but any advice would be appreciated! I'm hot-coating it anyway, to avoid sanding, but.....eugh... Pre-coating would have been smart, but I didn't factor in doing this sealing as originally I hadn't even planned to fibreglass the outside, let alone add in sealed buoyancy tanks...but there you go.

I use 100mm/110mm mohair rollers cost $1.00 ea, and used once only .
They work well and are not worth cleaning ,.

Jeff

I've tried those small 6mm Mohair rollers, but recently I've found some of the black foam rollers by uni-pro which are cheaper and therefore more disposable, with a similar nap/holding volume which are my go-to for the job. Still, it's a messy painful job nonetheless.

Ah well, job mostly done now anyway!

6mm shaft micro rollers are the way to go.
Double bag them in zip-locs & pop 'em in the freezer between coats.
But still a pain with all the stringers & braces & ribs & etc.
Looking good
AJ