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  #1  
Old 17th May 2007, 03:19 PM
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Cool So which one of yous mob got Kirribilli? 5.5 metre yacht restoration

Come on fess up!! I was watching that one in the hope it would be handed in and I could snap it up for a song ... and some wombat flamin well got it at the auction

Well... I hope you enjoy her thats all I can say... huuurrrumph

But seriously good score whoever did get it ... have fun!
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  #2  
Old 17th May 2007, 04:00 PM
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If I told you, I'd have to kill you ...

Lets say that some of the cedar dust on my hands is from a bunch of new splines that have been fitted to the hull to fill the cracks.

Dum de dum da dum te dum.

Any other questions?

MIK

Last edited by Boatmik; 17th May 2007 at 04:00 PM. Reason: To tease Dingo even more
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  #3  
Old 17th May 2007, 04:07 PM
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Lets say that some of the cedar dust on my hands is from a bunch of new splines that have been fitted to the hull to fill the cracks.
So Midge bought it?
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Old 18th May 2007, 12:39 AM
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Nope - the biting midge lives in Qld - I'm in SA.

Duckflat have started work on it.

Keel is off - boat is upside down - hull is half stripped and half splined - starboard side. I'm assisting with the technical side.

We had a talk today - she's built of beautiful WR Cedar planking and glued with resorcinol glue. Tween planks is splined with almost like a veneer of cedar - no more than 1.5mm wide at the hull surface.and no variation in width. Not surprising of a Bill Barnett built boat!

She was painted with an acrylic paint but the hull had been given a coat of varnish first - so the acrylic is peeling off beautifully. Unfortunately the cedar is quite stained with small scale dark patches spread all over the surface of the boat. It won't be possible to clear finish her. If she had been planked in honduras mahogany though ...

On the tech side the floors seem to have been too narrow - they were kept that way so the sole could be deep and the crew down low for more righting moment - but they were wrong there - the crew has a much bigger effect sitting on the side deck or on the windward side under the deck. All the hull splits were immediately above where the floors terminated - so we will raise the floors (and the sole) to spread the load from the keel a lot further

Also the keel entry and hull entry is way too sharp - would have hurt her upwind performance a great deal - particularly in rough water. So we will optimise the keel without changing the side profile view.

Also she has a little skeg fitted behind the rudder/keel which seems to indicate they were trying to tame her downwind steering - the boats of this era were touchy in a blow downwind with lots of rolling. We will probably enlarge the rudder for better control and cut it down toward the original if the control is fine.

We want her to go and want her to behave so will do some minor mods of this type - it actually isn't much at all. We also have to be careful not to increase the weight - otherwise she will become a 5.55 metre yacht rather than a 5.5

Decks are shot - so they will be replaced with a new one - that's probably the biggest avenue for reducing weight.

BTW all this means I will probably have some access to the boat which means you can come for a sail Dingo (in about a year or so).

MIK
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Old 18th May 2007, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
If I told you, I'd have to kill you ...

Lets say that some of the cedar dust on my hands is from a bunch of new splines that have been fitted to the hull to fill the cracks.

Dum de dum da dum te dum.

Any other questions?

MIK
YOU??? Dont tell me it were you!!

aaahhh Mik and here I thought you were a legend of control a true rational jack So much for that theory an here I thought I was becomin an oddity around here with me dreams an such an there you go takin me thunder Life as we know it has changed

I said to the missus "betcha one of them east coast gits get that bloody beauty" an she says "well sonshine it aint gonna be you so maybe theres some other dreamer with rose colored glasses on that will buy her" And so it came to pass

Have fun!
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  #6  
Old 18th May 2007, 10:26 AM
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an here I thought I was becomin an oddity
No 'becomin' about it Ding

Richard
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  #7  
Old 19th May 2007, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Daddles View Post
No 'becomin' about it Ding

Richard
Is it that obvious daddlydaddles? But then hopefully the oddity brings a smile or two to some poor bored authors day... hey I was wonderin yer git!! You aint swipin me words an weavin stories out of them are yer? I was thinkin about this the other day... gotta go have a look around the bookshops an such see if anyones nickin me style
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  #8  
Old 21st May 2007, 04:48 PM
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Default 5.5 metre owners

A consortium bought her. She will be restored and then hopefully sailed.
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Old 21st May 2007, 05:48 PM
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You aint swipin me words an weavin stories out of them are yer? I was thinkin about this the other day... gotta go have a look around the bookshops an such see if anyones nickin me style
Nah mate, publishers employ these evil demons called 'editors' - they study you in third year

Good news about Kirribilli Sassy - you aren't one of the consortium are you?

Richard
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  #10  
Old 21st May 2007, 08:23 PM
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A consortium bought her. She will be restored and then hopefully sailed.
Now WHY did you say that sassy!!!!! I had them all thinking I had a slice of her!!!

Whereas I'm only the consultant!

Or one of the consultants (

I'll take some photos on Wednesday so you can see what has been done. And just how little she looks turned upside down.

MIK
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Old 24th May 2007, 01:52 AM
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OK to Kirribilli, batman.

1/ The first pic is the overview - she has been turned over and Ted had removed the keel - actually the reverse order for that! Starboard side is mostly stripped and cracks in the planking have been splined as they have been uncovered so the hull doesn't move around too much. The paler lines are the splines.

The grooves for the splines have been cut with a router and are a slightly veed profile - maybe 6mm wide at the bottom of the bit and the width of the bit at the surface about 8mm. The planking is around 16 to 19mm thick so the router has been set up not to go right through but to finish around 5mm from the inside surface of the hull.

The router has been guided by temporarily tacking a batten parallel with the crack between the planks so that the bit will run along the crack when the edge of the router base plate is run along it.

Most of the starboard side has been stripped and splines are now in all the cracks.

2/ Here is the port side showing the locations of the splits. The ribs inside the boat are close spaced on around 1 ft centres and are laminated. They are in beautiful condition except in a couple of places where they cracked and have been fished with metal plates bolted to the sides. The floors - the timbers that run across the boat in the bottom of the hull finish just underneath the two splits you can see in the area that has been stripped (I'm making all these descriptions as if the boat was upright).

By the way - that is a Eureka Canoe in the background.

So we are looking at pulling out the existing floors and replacing them with deeper ones that will spread the keel loading further up the hull.

The splits in the area near the top of the pic are in the solid "built up" keel and are purely from side to side bending as the boat is tacked and the keel loads reverse.

3/ Here is a close up of Ted's splines and plugs. The hull is western red cedar and has water stains over much of the surface - remember the boat was built in 1956. So no clear finishes for her. Almost all of it is quarter sawn and there are scarfs about every 20 ft- beautiful scarfes glued with resorcinol - paper thin gluelines.

4/ The next pic shows some interesting detail. Firstly the plethora of waterlines and boot top lines scribed on the hull as she sunk deeper in the water as she got older - more junk aboard and she would have been dry sailed originally - hoisted out of the water after each race. We plan to get her back very close to the original waterline and are going to be manic about limiting the weight that goes back into her.

Also you can see just how extensive the splining is. the basic problem is the ribs have been highly effective in preventing the planks from splitting on the inside hull surface, but the outside has suffered from both shrinkage because of dryness but mostly it is just the structural damage from years of racing a lightly built boat - high rigging and keel stresses and the inadequate floors.

So we will be increasing the depth of the floors and also epoxy glassing the outside with a very light cloth. It looks like we will set it at 45deg to the planking angle so both directions of fibre cross the plank joins. This will require the boat to be fully epoxy sealed to prevent much future water absorbtion (and thus swelling and shrinking) and allow the glass to have the effectiveness of one double the weight.

The glass will take any tensile loads and transfer them safely across the plank joins.

The idea too is that it makes quite a simple job of preventing further damage to the structure. Because we will be using a very light glass it would also be possible to sand it off in future if someone has the dollars to do an absolutely authentic restoration. But the aim is to get the boat sailing regularly again and to reduce the loads on her structure. Generally boats that are being used regularly keep in good condition - neglected boats deteriorate quickly.

By the way here is a historic feature. This boat was built not too many years before all the 5.5metres went toward fin keels with separate rudders mounted further aft. The rudder on Kirribilli is mounted on the back of the keel.

For racing 5.5s there was great incentive to reduce drag by reducing wetted surface so the backs of the keels were moved as far forward as people dared to do. The "dared" is because moving the back of the keel forward means that the rudder moves toward the centre of the boat so it has a lot less power because of the reduced lever arm between it and the boat's axis of rotation. The end result is that 5.5s of this era were a bit wild downwind and some sprouted the skeg shown to try and tame them when heading in that direction - like a surfboard fin. Upwind they are very beautifully balanced and you can steer with one finger. But downwind a bit dodgy in a breeze under the big spinnaker they carry.

5/ The last pic shows how the boat has shrunk. David Wilson is not spectacularly tall but Kirribilli doesn't look that big beside him. Funny how big it looked when it was upright!!! Note how he is hamming it up with the plane - he felt he should attempt to look like he was doing something - even if it involves faking it.

I'll see if I can get more pics next week.
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  #12  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 12:02 AM
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Howdy All,

I've been trying to get round to putting more up for some time. First I left my camera at a friend's house, then I've been busy with some stuff.

I have about 3 or 4 posts worth of photos to catch up with.

1 & 2/ A couple of mood photos to show how long and lean she looks in the Duckflat shed. She looked so big right way up and now up the other way with keel removed she is tiny. Note the transom rot around the margins and the way one plank has been almost eaten up. BTW despite being almost all Western Red Cedar the transom (tiny thing that it is) is in Australian Red Cedar.

3/ The raked out cracks in the keel - it has been flexing from side to side as the boat heels for some time I imagine. It is a corollary of the crack along the side of the hull in the above post. The keel will be resplined and glassed with unidirectional glass at 90 degrees to the planking direction.

4/ That little skeg indicates that these were tricky boats downwind - they used to roll wildly. I'm suspecting a large part of it was the sail design and rig controls of the era that led to the rolling. We are going to get rid of that lump of timber and increase the size of the rudder a little instead. Particularly the rudder width at the top where it is furthest from the keel centre so has the greatest effect in steering. I have a strong feeling that it is not original anyhow.

It might give the boat a bit more directional stablity - but not much because it is so shallow - but it will also hamper turning because of the drag it will cause.

Note too the splining that has been done on this side. A slightly vee shaped cut with a tailored router bit that almost goes through to the interior of the hull (about 3mm short) along each hull crack. Then a matching veed piece of wood is epoxied in.

5/ Vindicated. As Ted cut it away with a sabresaw it became pretty obvious that it wasn't original. Remember this boat was built in 1955. Well the cutting revealed some wood but a whole lot of bulking up using airex foam and epoxy glass over the top. The earliest time that is likely to have been done was in the middle 60s.

It is going to be cut down to be the same length as the revised rudder.
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  #13  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 12:31 AM
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Continuing ...

1/ This is the old rudder and the revised skeg/fairing. The back edge of the rudder is going to be extended back to approximately match the back of the cut down skeg. This will give around a square foot of extra rudder area at the most beneficial place - AND it won't produce as much drag as the boat turns. The rudder blade will have to be thickened up to acheive this.

2/ A great optical illusion here. The transom of Kirribilli is about a foot deep by a foot and half wide - but here it dwarfs the fellow working by the jointer. The next picture will make it clear what has happened in the pic.

To the building process though - the rotten part of the transom has been replaced by a double lamination of brand new Aussie Red Cedar. Where they got it from I don't know.
Looks great though!

3/ This explains the mystery photo. The boat has been raised quite high and the photo above was taken quite close to the transom - this forces the perspective by allowing the transom to fill the image.

4/ Moving to the other end of the boat - I mentioned a far too sharp entry for the boat - the bow was quite sharp. The problem with this is that if the bow is not pointing directly into the water it is running through a great long eddy will peel off the side opposite to the approaching water flow. The stem had already been rounded over at the bow waterline measurement point. I'd imagine this was done so that the waterline would appear a bit shorter and it would reduce the boat's rating slightly. We have just transferred the rounding through to the leading edge of the keel.

That leading edge is way too sharp as well so when the lead goes back on we will be building it out into a proper "air"foil leading edge shape.

This should make the boat perform quite a bit better upwind generally but expecially in rougher water where it starts bouncing around a bit. The original leading edge would have been very prone to separation.

Even more later.
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Old 31st Jan 2009, 03:20 PM
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Hi Everyone,

Just joined up to this site and am hoping you guys may be able to answer a couple of questions I have been tossing around in my head with regards to splining.
I have a Tumlaren (a wreck that I bought to save from the chainsaw) as you may have guessed from the tag. I have been thinking of splining her but have some concerns.
If you spline a traditionally built hull that expands when it goes back in the water do you not increase the likelihood of cracking frames?
I know that you are supposed to use a softer timber than the planking but mine is oregon planking which is already very soft.
As no-one I have talked to can definitively allay these concerns I am considering splining above the waterline and caulking below.
But, if i do this what do I do with planks that sweep from below the water line to above.
Lastly as the spline is rebated into the outer face of the planks do you just leave a void on the inside? Has anyone heard of anyone using a'T' section shaped spline that can sit into the gap between the planks.
(Hope these questions don't sound stupid or ill considered.)
My preference would be to spline due to the standard of finish and reliabilty. I sail regularly on a 1929 44' sloop and we have had a few caulking/leakage problems in the last 3 years. Concerns about this worsening in choppy conditions have kept us out of some races recently and I would rather be confident that the boat is sound for all conditions.
Must say the Kirribilli project looks to be a cracker. Any photos of the finished boat.
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Old 1st Feb 2009, 01:19 PM
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Howdy Tumzara,

And you are a VERY lucky boy! (unless you are a woman called Zara!)

Paul, who writes here under the name of PAR may be able to offer some seriously useful advice.

He is one of the few that understands and likes modern methods but also understands trad methods as well.

I will tell him the post is here.

Paul ... the Tumlaren is a long narrow Skerry Cruiser type from Knud Riemers. Just a shade under 30ft and double ended.

Wonderful classic boat. I have some pics somewhere ...

Michael
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