Thread: WEST V's BOTECOTE

Yes, there are significant differences (hardener formulation), especially in price, but for your uses, BoteCoat is the stuff that will do.

I've used west system for a number of years successfully. No issues with quality. Having said that I've not heard of any reason to not use Boatcote. The reason I use West. It's at the shop I buy my wood from. Probably as good a reason as any.

Botecote claim to have pretty much got amine blush and epoxy sensitivity under control - both worthwhile advantages. And they are Australian as you say.
Mark

I like Ford cars and Botecote
I am betting Par doesn't know what a Holden is.

I Bet I do . . .

I'm a newbie on this forum, but I built a fishing kayak a couple of years ago, with outriggers. The outriggers I built as a learning project, and used West System on those. On the kayak I used Botecote. In my opinion Botecote takes the cake, on a number of fronts. Firstly, I built my projects in winter, and the Botecote cured off in low temperatures much better than the Wests, with no amine blush at all. Also, the measuring was much easier for the Botecote. I know it doesn't seem important but for me measuring 2:1 was simpler and easier than for a 4:1 mix, especially for small batches. On the pricing front, Botecote was a bit pricier but not enough to make much difference to the project. And 2 years down the track my kayak still looks like new with no discolouration, and I didn't coat it with varnish at all.

Just my 2c.

West system epoxy has a range of mix ratios, depending on hardener used.

The usual 205 (slow) hardener is a 5:1 ratio (volume) and if mixed by weight the ratio can safely range from 4.8 to 6.2:1. West 206 (medium) is the same ratio, though the mix by weight has a little less latitude. West 207 (special clear formulation) is a 3:1 ratio with weight mix ranges between 3.4 to 4.1:1 being acceptable. Lastly is 209 (slow) which is also a 3:1, but a wider rage of weight variance, being 2.8 to 3.4:1 as okay.

West 207 is mostly non-blush, unless using it in very humid conditions. These are the usual "retail" formulations of West System epoxies, but there are others, some quite specialized (and costly). For the average user the "200" series hardeners will do just fine.

BoteCoat has developed a good reputation for a nice, stable goo. I can't speak to it's non-blushing formulation, as I don't know it well enough (chemically), but from what I've heard it's pretty reliable stuff.

I'm glad you've had good success with BoteCote, but if not storing indoors, out of direct sunlight, it will darken on you in time, without UV protection. I have a boat that's all clear coated, but it's stored in a windowless barn, so I don't have to worry much. It doesn't take much sunlight to darken an unprotected epoxy finish.

The single biggest advantage of boat coat is the fumes....far less and far less agressive.

I have used both...if you are not carefull with your ventilation you will get a roaring headache with west, with relativly little exposure.....and that is only an indicator of the real issues associated with eopxies.

Some people report pretty bad elergic reactions to west....a bloke I know had a rash on his legs for over a month......told him to cover up.

While you do need to consider ventilation with boat coat or any epoxy...it is no where near as bad as west and others.

For good or bad west is generally runnier than boatcoat.

I used to do very small batches of west epoxy with suringes......boat coat is too viscous for that to be practical.....disposable medicn glasses are the go for boat coat.

West tends to be crisper when cured than boat coat, it also tends to be clearer...boat coat always seems to be ever so slightly milky.

If allowing west to fully cure out, it needs to be sanded, detergent scrubbed or solvent wiped before recoating due to the wax issue...boat coat does not seem to have that problem.

If the unmixed boatcoat is exposed to cold temperatures it can thicken in the container, making it unworkable......needs to be heated up.....bucket of hot water...to restore to workability...have not noticed this with west.

The Boatcoat office is 20 minutes drive from me so that is convienient.

For my money and most uses.......Boatcoat.

Though...there are some applications where I would consider west a better product.

cheers

Wow, a lot of "misnomers" in that post Soundman.

Originally Posted by soundman

. . . The single biggest advantage of boat coat is the fumes....far less and far less agressive.

I have used both...if you are not carefull with your ventilation you will get a roaring headache with west, with relativly little exposure.....and that is only an indicator of the real issues associated with eopxies . . .

Both BoatCote and West 105 resins are essentially the same. Hardeners differ considerably, depending on which is used, though their basic chemical structures are similar, just some non-reactive modifiers in Boat Cote, compared to West 205, 206, 207 and 209. Odor is an ammonia type of smell, usually strongest just after a container is opened, but quickly dissipates, because of vapor pressure levels. West's glycol, amine hardener base in 205 and 206, will have more odor than BoatCote, but not so much the case with 207 and especially not with 209.

Originally Posted by soundman

. . . For good or bad west is generally runnier than boatcoat . . .

Viscosity can be controlled a lot of ways. BoatCote's modifiers do add some bulk to the goo and this works well for glue and filling coats, but can be a disadvantage in wetout. Heat is the easiest way, without some chemical background and only a few degrees can make a huge difference in viscosity.

Originally Posted by soundman

. . . If allowing west to fully cure out, it needs to be sanded, detergent scrubbed or solvent wiped before recoating due to the wax issue...boat coat does not seem to have that problem . . .

This is precisely how most folks get into contamination and subsequent bond problems. Amine blush is water soluble. A simple wash with water, maybe a touch of mild soap if you must, but that's it. Then you can sand (or sand while washing with a scrubbing pad) and prep for an over coat of some type (epoxy, paint, whatever). Using a solvent wipe is a great way to introduce contaminates and unwanted chemical reactions. No major formulator will tell you this. Wash, dry, then sand for the next coat - no detergents, no solvent wipes, etc. BoatCote's modifiers do prevent most blush in normal applications, under recommended conditions, but if you try to stretch this, it'll blush, as will any of the usual formulations of marine epoxies. Simply put, if looking for the best and strongest bonds, you should always assume a blush will occur, unless you've insured it will not, with technique and environmental controls, which is a rare thing in a home built boat.

Originally Posted by soundman

. . . If the unmixed boatcoat is exposed to cold temperatures it can thicken in the container, making it unworkable......needs to be heated up.....bucket of hot water...to restore to workability...have not noticed this with west . . .

All epoxy formulations will "crystallize" if exposed to cold temperatures. Yep, you're right, a dunk in a bucket of very warm water, will usually do the trick and melt the crystals back in, with no harm. Use water as hot as it'll come off the hot water heater and you're good to go.

All in all, BoatCote works great and costs less than West, though you have a lot more choices with West in regard to cure rates, strength, elongation, etc. For the average back yard builder, BoatCote is the usual choice, but techniques and procedures are the real key to epoxy use. If you do things out of sequence or incorrectly, you'll screw the batch, regardless of brand.

Allergies are an issue, but most that I've met have been swimming in it, not following reasonable precautions, etc. and/or had allergic reactions to other, usually alkaline things previously, so were naturally, sensitive to epoxy anyway. There's often no way to predict who will have a reaction, so don't eat it, don't smear it in your hair, eyes, on your skin etc. and for God's sake don't use a solvent to wipe it off your skin, which just forces it into your blood stream, as if you mainlined it with a syringe.

Um Sorry but I don't see a single Misnomer.

West in the form that most use is far more unpleasnt to use than boat coat....plenty will testify to the fact.

Its not the fumes from the unmixed resins it is the fumes from the mixed uncured resin.....anybody who knows about the health risks of epoxies in general knows that this is the problematic phase.

Bost coat has certain components pre reacted to minimise the hazardous fumes....thus the different mix ratio

no misnomer there.

Ya simply can not argue that west isn't runnier than boat coat......its is a simple straight forward fact...what you do to deal with that is another matter.......use the same methids on both..west will still be runnier

No misnomer there.

As I understand it there is no issue with a solvent wipe....if it is a solvent that leaves no residue......if there is unsealed material adjacent to the coated material or there has been sand thru....using water can certainly be problematic......considering the issues with epoxy and water.....clean evaporating solvents, dry off far faster and more reliably than water particularly when used with clean wipes and sparing use of solvent.

Boat coat suffers far far less than west from the waxing problem.

No misnomer there

I have never had either west or boat coat crystalise......but I certainly have had boat coat thicken to the point that it will neither pump nor pour....I do not live in a cold climate, the coldest it has got here last few winters was 5C....and yes a bucket of hot water sorted that out no problem.

No misnomer there


As far as underplaying the risks associated with eopxy.....ya don't have to swim in it or smear it over your body to get an alergic reaction or simply an adverse reaction or mild symptom. exposure to the fumes may be sufficient

Given sufficient exposure most people will develop an alergic reaction to epoxy...and that status will remain permanent.

Epoxy is an insidieous hazard, because the short term effects do not indicate the long term effects.
Some of the effects of epoxy can be a little vague and do not come on immediately...rashes on other parts of the body than contacted and comming some time after use.....worst cases, brain and nurological damage can be long comming and stealthy......anybody got a funny twitch..perhaps in the eyebrow.

regardless of you having any sort of discomfort or reactions, it is imperative that it is treated as hazardous.
Above all good ventlation.
Yes keep it off your skin and other body parts....disposable gloves are a good thing....I've found blue hisgh risk medical gloves best.

AND oh YES.....do not use solvent for clean up.....vinegar or citrus bassed hand cleaners are far more effecive and far safer.
The solvents allow the toxins to pass easily thru the skin barrier.


cheers

Obviously, you need to do some research, as anyone with serious understanding of the formulations and applications, will have issue with much of your posted observations.

I have no need of a serious understanding of formulations...I observe both products as I find them.

cheers

So, following the procedures and guidelines by the professionals and formulators, just doesn't work?

That is a throw away line and you know it.

appart from my use of a solvent wipe, there is nothing I have posted that goes against the manufacturers or generally understood recommendations concerning epoxy.

cheers