Thread: Which Boat To Build

Originally Posted by pawnhead

My first boat was called Gumby. I wish I'd got a picture of the name. It took me ages to paint it on. Dad and I built it.

You couldn't give your kids a better experience than to build and sail a boat with them.

fancy that, what a coincidence. Nice pic.

My first Sabre was called Water Gumby. That was around 1979. From that day on, there were people at the club who had no idea what my name was. I just became Gumby.

Several boats thereafter were named the same. I had a Fireball with a mate whose Sabre was called Pooh Bear. Whe called the Fireball 'Gumby and the Bear'.

The PT was called Water Gumby but when we went to pacers, we named the boat 'Terminator Duck' and all 3 of the boys crewed with me at various stages.

As you said, it's great family stuff. We'd go away to National Titles, stay in the caravan and we all had a blast. We still see those friends now, even though they've stopped sailing. I'm still at it as mainsheet trimmer on a 35' keel boat at Royal Melbourne.

It's a shame the kids these days don't get involved in clubs like that anymore.

Nice looking Sabre Gumby! THe hypnotic "rightness" of a properly set up boat.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy BVDL,

The Flying Ant is a great little boat - for a couple of kids and it is also a great boat for a single adult - but it doesn't answer the problem of a "Father and Son/Daughter" type boat.

Also the have gone high tech crazy - here is the current price for a full carbon fibre mast, boom spinnaker pole.
http://www.cstcomposites.com/flying_ant.htm

Just those bits come to $2200!!!!!!! Just to get a couple of 13 year olds on the water.
MIK

WOW expensive parts, I actually still have my flying ant, it hasnt touched water in nearly 10 years and need of some restoration. I actually tried to give it away about 6 months ago and neither of the two people I offered it to ever turned up to pick it up.

I actully learned to sail in it father and son and although we were probably slighlty overloaded it performed well, not sure how competative we woudl be however.

Think I will have to keep it and maby do it up and use it to teach my daughter to sail, she is only 20months at the moment but if I start now it may be ready for her by the time she is old enough.

Ben

Hey Gumby .....
Nice Sabre, took me ages to find but I finally came across them.
The shots were taken about 31 years ago, my first Sabre at age 15, with a bit of help from Dad. Number 276.
Being built then launched.
I remember they days when we would sail a fleet of 100+ Mirrors, 50 odd Sabre's and god knows what else, I was a member at Blairgowrie. The fun we had and the friends we made. I just want to give my kids the same type of enjoyment, good clean fun outdoors.

See Ya

Robert

Beaut boat Bassic!

The Sabres are one of a few pools of sanity in the conventional sailing world. That's probably why their fleets are growing while most others contract.

You can still build a very fine competitive Sabre from wood for around $3000.

Same price as the Flying Ant Mast, Boom and Spinnaker pole by the time they are rigged.

MIK

Ohhhhhhh Godddddddd
Hey just found a shot of the Mirror Dad and me built the session before the Sabre. Oh the memories. Excuse the photo but these are starting to get very old ....... ummmmmmmm .... just like me I suppose ...

Roll On Summer

Rob

This is a bit late, both for this thread and, I suspect, the real world. Your criteria for a wooden boat without spinnaker, suitable for father son/daughter/wife combination, able to be handled by two people on and off the water and a sight faster and more exciting than a Mirror, would have been perfectly filled by the NS14. Originally based on the John Spencer designed 14' Javelin with a sail area of 100 sq.ft, it rapidly developed as the measurement restrictions were quite wide. Originally, most boats were home built, but as higher performance was sought, the commercial builders started to produce hi-tech glass fibre hulls. That doesn't mean that a home built, ply NS14 wouldn't still measure, but the chances of being competitive in a racing fleet would be small. While the class stuck to the original concept of being suitable for families not attracted to trapezes and kites and a realistic minimum crew weight, with at least one adult (over 21) in the crew, they flourished, but when the rules were relaxed to allow teenaged crews with lots of muscle and money, they have become just another off the beach class.
In the 70s and 80s, state and national championships would attract fleets of over 100 boats.
If you would like to consider the NS as a boat to have fun with and race in a mixed fleet, I could probably still find a set of plans of one of the later, faster ply designs for you.
Cheers
Graeme

Howdy Graemet,

I for one would be very keen to see some of the plans for the faster wooden boats.

I raced NS14s for many years before going over to Sharpies. The NS14s of the era that you are talking about were delicious boats to sail. Fast upwind and rocket on a run barely leaving a wake.

Now they have quite distorted hullshapes to fit around their measurement rules and while it would be possible to produce the same shapes in strip planking it is impossible to do it in plywood anymore.

But the later boats like the Angelique and ones that followed were great sailing boats with very sophisticated by low cost (wooden wing masts) rigs.

MIK

G'day MIK,
I raced NS14s for 30 years and built most of my own boats. I also ran the plans service for the Association when they had one. The first departure from the Javelin was the Analisa which took Spencer's lines and flattened the run aft and dropped the height of the stem. I had a fiddle with this concept with my third boat, at about the time the Angelique plans were released by the Association to replace the Javelin. Latterly, I flew a glass Superoo (Darryl Mannix) shell that I decked in ply. I think I still have the Angelique plans somewhere.
Cheers
Graeme

Ah, that's right Analisa.

The hull was also more veed through the centrecase area which fined up the entry and reduced wetted surface too if I remember.

I originally had a glass Angelique built by the Qantas sailing club which I rerigged with a wooden wing mast, then I went to my first new boat, a holmes brothers Red Rog. Had crew problems for a couple of years and then when I went back with the Red Rog the whole Aero thing had happened and BOY did we have to sail hard to finish in the top third of the fleet at Connells point.

Loved the rigs on that era of NS. A cheapish over rotating wooden mast for excellent aerodynamics.

Who'd have thunk it!

MIK

I came across some plans for an NS14 a few years ago, another few years and I might have time to build one. This design is called a Delta V. It's a cedar strip built hull with marine ply deck, you can have a look at it here: http://www.nwmarinedesign.com/deltav.htm

Dunno if it's what you're looking for, but it's a nice little boat.

The Delta is a cute little boat indeed, but not an NS14.

This is not to cast any doubt on Paul's suggestion, which is appropriate as a possible boat, but more to discuss the site's contention that it is an NS14 and to discuss what makes the NS14 different from almost anything else on the water.

NSs are about getting the maximum performance without a spinnaker.

Also they exploit every corner of the rule they are designed under. This boat is flat and wide with lots of wetted surface. Because an NS14 doesn't have a lot of sail area the class has worked towards lowering the drag of the hull - which is why the later wooden NS14s are so sweet to sail. The Delta has a spinnaker and has none of the normal NS fineness.

This is the delta - note how wide the first transverse section back from the bow is and how wide and dish shaped the sections through the middle and back of the boat are.



Compare to a pic of a competitive NS from 10 years ago - the first of the Tequilas. the bows and sterns are even more fine now. The transverse sections are very feint but they are there - you can see how narrow they are in the front of the boat and how having the chine at the back gets rid of a lot of excess width.



You can see the wall sidedness of the bow that lets them knife upwind in this pic.



The other place the NS14s have developed is to reduce the amount of rocker in the hull - the fore and aft curve along the centreline. It is very small compared to the delta. Also the sterns have pushed in a lot narrower. This is good in drag terms but it means the narrower stern is less likely to pitch up in waves thus forcing the less buoyant bow underwater.

I don't mind the Delta at all as a standardish, slightly old fashioned hull - in fact it would look quite space aged compared to the normal run of European and North American designed boats.

I suspect the NS14 ply hulls we are talking about above would see it off in most normal conditions unless it was allowed to use its spinnaker and it wouldn't get close to the modern ones.

Best wishes
MIK

Originally Posted by graemet

G'day MIK,
...
I think I still have the Angelique plans somewhere.
Cheers
Graeme

Howdy Graeme,

If you did and had a digital camera and you could be bothered you would be welcome to send me some snaps of the plans

)

Not the slightest problem if you don't - it is just my curiosity factor (and love of NS14s)
MIK

Given that the original request was
"Construction from plywood, 2 man boat, main sail, jib and spinnaker. No trapeze as this will be a "learning to sail" boat for my kids & wife, upto 14 feet or 4.3 meters. (Yes the wife is keen about the whole idea )"

Might I respectfully suggest that a modern NS14 doesn't fit the bill ?
In fact, the class seems to have developed beyond a "beginners" class & looks more like a mini 18' skiff. With a similar budget required ?

Seems to me (and I'm 20years removed from Melbourne & paddling a slalom kayak on the nearest lee shore in any storm looking for a buzz) that Robert's best move might be to use a few weekends visiting each sailing club along his section of The Bay, talking to members about the classes they sail, why, & what's around. And maybe buy a 2nd hand boat & do it up. The own-build idea might be better left a year or three until the family has a better idea of what suits them.

He may yet end up in an odds'n'ends club rather like the Clayton Bay SC in SA, building & sailing a non-class boat that better fits the family fun implication.. a GIS, or something by Welsford, or even a Laker or similar out of the Build-a-Boat cattledog.

cheers
AJ