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Thread: Coquina

  1. #16
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    UPS came through today cause my Coquina plans arrived
    Besides the detailed drawings, I ordered the CD that Doug Hylan and Maynard Bray have put together to guide the amateur throughout the build. Over 500 pics of both the glued and planked version wow.

    These guys have done an excellent job, in fact I have to say it is nearly as good as Bitingmidges PDR or GIS websites

    I am looking forward to much study and learning while I get some materials together and build a new shed for the project.

    Are we excited you bet.

    Cheers
    Mike

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  3. #17
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    It has been a long time coming but I have finally made a start, not very substantial but a start non the less.

    As I am waiting on build space which hopefully will be completed in March some work on the spars templates centreboard rudder hmmm....actually there is plenty to do even before the hull work starts.

    Coquina calls for a birdseye main mast plus mizzen, gaffs and booms plenty to do and given the birdseye technique is totally new to me I have been studying up. Some months ago I purchased a 20' length of hoop pine 2x8 nice straight grain and clear apart from one small knot on one face at about the 15' point just the stuff for the job.

    After much thinking drawing and general indecision I marked out for ripping while trying to minimise waste, my first mistake. I was going to laminate all the spars from two pieces but a miscalculation put paid to that so the mizzen mast and boom will get that treatment only.
    The first lesson of the day is pay attention to grain direction and don't worry so much about saving every last mm of wood although at the price a little thought is warranted.

    Anyway I ripped the 20' lengths yesterday, no mean feat in itself I finished thicknessing today so next week I'll cut the V's for the mast staves and glue up the mizzen blanks. No pics cause you have all seen milled wood.
    Probably an over kill but I purchased a birdsmouth bit from Lee Valley so after roughing out on the table saw I'll clean the V on the router table. Note to self, clear enough space in the shed this week to manoeuvre 15' lengths around.

    One thing I have observed is that if my family had to rely on my boat building skills for income they would starve.

    Cheers
    Mike

  4. #18
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    Mike, that looks to be a really beautiful project. Enjoy every minute of it, and I look forward to reading your posts. The study plans look first rate and her lines are very beautiful.

  5. #19
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    To continue the discussion on the rope steering, please do yourself a favor and include it in the build. It hasn't the friction you would think it does. I imagine in old Capt. Nat's day, with wooden blocks, there might have been a fair amount of friction, but with modern blocks, maybe even ball bearing equipped, there's just no issue. I found the friction just enough to make holding course easier on the hand. I could easily see where you might want to increase friction, if really high tech blocks were incorporated.

    For several years I've been making wooden blocks with high tech innards. This is to say I use ball bearing sheaves, stainless cheeks, covered with an oiled or varnish wooden shell. They look like wooden blocks, sound like wooden blocks when they bang into things, but perform as sweetly as any Harken, Ronstan, etc. product. I've even made a few ratcheting blocks, which are way cool compared to a traditional block.

    I thought the boat could use a more efficient, preferably kickup rudder. She responded well to the helm, but wasn't the handling I expected of a boat this size. She acts like a bigger boat. If you've much dinghy sailing experience, you'll want to increase the aspect ratio on the rudder, for better feel and response. I don't think it needs much more area, but a little wouldn't hurt and if I'm wrong and helm goes lee, then you can cut some off the bottom until the balance comes back (it's easier to subtract then add area).

    She'll carry a pretty draggy quarter wave if not trimmed up properly (shift your butt), but once you find her groove, she's a sweet thing, very well mannered and balanced.

    The steering line can be rigged under the coming/sidedeck, just out side or inside of it. If it's inboard, then you could lean against it and lock up the helm, but if it's under (the usual practice) then you can't lean against it. The Hylan plans are lovely and complete.

    When you line off the plank lands, you'll realize why there are so many. The stern has quite a bit of shape in it and anything less (which could be done) would make twisting the "tuck" a fair bit more difficult and it wouldn't look near as good.

    You're going to love this boat Mike.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob540 View Post
    Mike, that looks to be a really beautiful project. Enjoy every minute of it, and I look forward to reading your posts. The study plans look first rate and her lines are very beautiful.
    Thanks Rob, her lines are indeed beautiful and there is something about a Herreshoff transom, all of his designs have a certain DNA to me at least and sure there are many other lovely hulls by skilled designers but NGH I think captured that indescribable something.

    Arrh posts well hope you have a good novel or three for reading in between progress reports.

    Mike

  7. #21
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    Seasons Greetings Paul,
    Yep definitely retaining the rope steering and may do a tillered version for use with the main only when stepped in the thwart. Thanks for the advice on the rudder size the plans do not include full size rudder or centreboard patterns so a bit of builders interpretation is called for so I'll start on the bigger side.

    With regard to the original NGH steering Maynard Bray makes the point that they have simplified the arrangement but does not describe how. This maybe because little in the way of notes exist from the era. On the redrawn plans there are shown eyes fitted on the transom so I suspect the idea was to run the steering line from that eye through an eye or small block on the rudder then back through a hole in the transom and bulkhead to the main steering line, only guessing though.
    The modern version uses spring tensioned blocks mounted inside the rear cabin/compartment instead, a much cleaner look I think with a bit of power assistance.

    Included with the CD is a detailed write up by Maynard on sailing Coquina which he did over two years the down side of this is the prospective builder starts to dream of sailing her instead of building.
    He makes the point as you that she steers like a bigger boat, that is be gentle and helm progressively don't just throw it over or in this case yank on the line and trim the mizzen to suit the conditions (it is fairly big).

    Blocks.......must remember PAR trad look modern function. Another builder I have been following is calling up some gorgeous polished bronze NGH replicas ah but the cost oh well plenty of time to think about that.

    I must share a with you.
    In the pics on the the CD there is often a bloke doing what builders do now I'm looking at these pics trying to soak in the knowledge or at least understand what's going on all the time thinking gee he looks familiar. Well today I'm reading Maynards notes for the umpteenth time when I notice builders Doug Hylan and John Brooks hmm....no wonder he looks familiar he wrote the book I've been reading over and over on glued lapstrake construction for the last four months.

    Cheers
    Mike

  8. #22
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    John Brooks is a piece of work. He's an instructor at WoodenBoat's school and a likable fellow.

    Capt. Nat was an old world craftsman and used models to develop shapes for his yachts. His hands were so skilled that he could tell the virtues of the craft by just running them over the model.

    After many years building every imaginable type of boat, he found little need for complete plan sets. It was very rare to record offsets at Herreshoff Manufacturing. They had a way of building things, depending on build type and this was just accepted. In fact, most of the industry standards were set by HMC for the others to follow. He was a highly skilled engineer and designed very clever structures that remain durable, light and lovely. I'm reminded of the three NY 30's that were just recently restored. The double planked hulls were still in exceptional condition after 100 years and a hard racing career for the first 50.

    It's thought the steering (no actual details survive) was a whip tackle on each side of the rudder. This explains the eye bolts. The slip springs, just like found on outboard motor cable steering systems, just sucks up the slack. I don't think they'll provide any additional steering effort. She'd look great with fine wooden blocks, but you really want the power and ease of running found in new blocks. I've seen a couple of new manufactures, turning out the old HMC bronze blocks, but damn don't get hit in the head with one, let alone the huge amount of weight they'll bring to the rig. I've made some impressively light blocks with ball bearing sheaves, stainless straps and cedar cheeks, I could always paint or leaf them bronze and have them at a fraction of the weight, not to mention the price.






  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAR View Post
    I've seen a couple of new manufactures, turning out the old HMC bronze blocks, but damn don't get hit in the head with one, let alone the huge amount of weight they'll bring to the rig. I've made some impressively light blocks with ball bearing sheaves, stainless straps and cedar cheeks, I could always paint or leaf them bronze and have them at a fraction of the weight, not to mention the price.
    I've read an article about those NY 30's seriously beautiful boats I hate to think how much the restoration cost and I wonder if that project would get done now with the current financial crisis probably just as well they got finished when they did.

    Blocks, you are right of course I hadn't thought of how a belt on the head would take the shine off a polished bronze block so to speak.

    I'll PM you a list of sizes and qty for you to price up, some bronze leaf would be really cool.

    Cheers
    Mike

  10. #24
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    In a recent issue of WoodenBoat, the restoration of the three NY 30's was covered, I think they suggested the costs, which was millions, but they were museum quality restorations at a very respected yard.

    I've sailed on a NY 30 and they are thoroughbreds for sure, if under their original sail plan, which most aren't. They're wet, but predictable rides with pretty amazing windward performance for gaffers.

    Are the plans calling for bronze blocks? I can't imagine using them on a small boat, let alone the cost. Equipping the boat with all bronze blocks would rival the material costs for the build. The cheapest bronze blocks I've seen are the short HMC pattern 3/8" blocks, which would be better looking on a small boat. They're around $50 each, without a link or other attachment. Of course everything is optional, like beckets, clevises, etc. A ball park price for your rig would be in the $600 range, plus shipping. Ouch . . . They aren't that darn pretty.

    How about modern blocks with a bronze plated plastic cover? Okay, maybe leaf or painted wooden covers?

    Yes, they have bronze and silver leaf. I think they also have other metals like copper and platinum too, though I've only seen bronze, gold (in a few different colors) and silver.

  11. #25
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    Default Endless rope steering - a South Australian Connection

    Many thanks for your collective erudition and eloquence on these topics! It seemed worth mentioning that the endless rope steering system set up almost exactly the same as NG's except that the fairleads were above the deckline inboard of the toerails, was very common amongst the Greek fishing community working out of Thevenard on the West Coast of SA during the fifties and sixties. Skippers were more often than not alone on Murat Bay fishing for whiting, shark, snapper, gar, and snook and many of the evolutions involved in these cottage fisheries called for activity outside of the three foot by three foot aft cockpit. An example might be dabbing for gar braced in the forrard footwell or even the companionway of the tiny sleeping cabin, built forrard of the mast in cutters over 16 feet lod with the Blaxland turning at about 120 revs waving the long handled dab net with one hand, pumping the Tilley lantern with the other and occasionally jerking the endless rope steering line as the school of gar sheered this way and that in the light.

    Another favourite evolution made possible by the endless rope was "happy hour" for the weary skipper on a choppy homeward passage from St Peters Island or some such miserable place when, braced either in the companionway, or if the cutter was less than 16 ft long, sitting on a cushion lodged in the grating covering the fishwell, the leather fortified bottle of ouzo and the jar of pickled razorfish hearts could be savoured at gentlemanly leisure.

    I never saw an endless rope system without a tiller for use when the skipper was wedged into his aft cockpit. The tiller was more often than not an axe handle which looked very shipshape in this application and proved admirable for the purpose of steering with the cheeks providing again a means of hands free driving for the single handed skipper.

    Regretfully, South Australia to my knowledge has not yet thrown up a Chapelle or Leather to dignify and celebrate the beautiful and able local small craft of South Australia now very rare indeed. In their original working configuration some of these tiny cutters and particularly those built at Denial Bay by the fabulous and engagingly grumpy Stan Thiselton were every bit as capable of provoking that visceral lurch of recognition of timeless beauty of form and line that the likes of "Coquina" unfailingly provoke.

  12. #26
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    Thanks Mr B that is really interesting, don't spose you have any pics of these boats I think I know the type but was not aware of the steering gear.

    BTW not much action on the building front it's too darn hot.

    Cheers
    Mike

  13. #27
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    Default endless rope steering

    Dear Mike,

    You're absolutely right I don't have any photos - never carried a camera around but I would be really happy to do a few sketches and send them to you snail mail. I haven't a clue how to send sketches by email or post them here although I would love to be able to do that. My email address is [email protected] - nothing is ever simple - this is a satelite service and in the hot weather we have been advised to play the hose on the transponder on the roof if we can't get the connection to establish! All I'm saying is that if you would like to send a message agreeing to a few sketches, it might take a day or two for me to respond.

    By the way, a few months ago before I had even heard of woodwork forums I downloaded some info from Doug Hylan's site about his Hird Island Skiff design which I thought was a pretty elegant and crafty little number and lo and behold he has built in an endless rope system because he liked Coquina's so much. He now swans around his local marshy creeks sitting on a cushion in the middle of the boat with Mrs Hylan tweaking his rope and quaffing red wine. This behaviour borders on the legendary and should be frequently emulated !

    Look forward to hearing from you if you'd like the sketches
    All the best
    Pos (Barnacle)

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Barnacle View Post
    Dear Mike,

    You're absolutely right I don't have any photos - never carried a camera around but I would be really happy to do a few sketches and send them to you snail mail. I haven't a clue how to send sketches by email or post them here although I would love to be able to do that. My email address is [email protected] - nothing is ever simple - this is a satelite service and in the hot weather we have been advised to play the hose on the transponder on the roof if we can't get the connection to establish! All I'm saying is that if you would like to send a message agreeing to a few sketches, it might take a day or two for me to respond.

    By the way, a few months ago before I had even heard of woodwork forums I downloaded some info from Doug Hylan's site about his Hird Island Skiff design which I thought was a pretty elegant and crafty little number and lo and behold he has built in an endless rope system because he liked Coquina's so much. He now swans around his local marshy creeks sitting on a cushion in the middle of the boat with Mrs Hylan tweaking his rope and quaffing red wine. This behaviour borders on the legendary and should be frequently emulated !

    Look forward to hearing from you if you'd like the sketches
    All the best
    Pos (Barnacle)
    No worries the plans have plenty of info and yes that Mr Hylan is not only a fairly handy boat builder he is to be commended for his appreciation of the finer points of boating.

  15. #29
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    Default Coquina blog

    To blog or not to blog that is the question. I have been undecided until now on starting a blog of my snail like coquina build. I think the additional input in a thread is most welcome and the the fact there is already a great site here has tipped the balance.

    So here is the state of play not a lot to report I'm afraid the summer has interrupted progress, building a house and furniture for same put paid to boat building. The minister for finance has decreed there will be no boat building in our new abode so the next order of business is to clean out and reorganise my existing two car garage (I'd show you a pic but I'm too embarrassed).

    Enough rambling below are some pics of the mast taking shape.

    1. Shows maching the vee after a rough cut on the table saw.
    2&3. Cutting the tapers top and bottom with a flush cut bit and using a stave that had been planed to size as a template.
    4. Made some supports to ensure correct alignment for gluing and because I have yet to build a long bench for cutting the strakes I am employing various benches and cupboards to get the length needed.
    5. The dry run looks OK
    6. It's great how the vees just slip together on a birdsmouth mast.
    Last edited by m2c1Iw; 29th April 2009 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Added some description

  16. #30
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    Personally, I'm grateful that you will expose your work on a thread, but I wonder if you will wonder from time to time, why so many people look yet so few respond in any way...You put yourself up to be helpful and open your work to scrutiny but...never mind, I look forward to your posts with enthusiasm.

    Nice featherboard set-up. Which method did you use to establish the dimensions of the staves and their respective birdsmouthes (?) (beaks, surely!) for the diameter you needed?

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