Thread: Reading plans

Dunno mate, I'd have to have a look at the plans to try to put them into context. Sounds a bit odd to me. What's the country of origin of the plans? Maybe that will help someone give an answer.

Richard

Daddles,
They are the Coquina plans by Doug Hylan USA

e.g. Keel Mahogany/D Fir S. 3/4".........

Here am I making stuff without knowing what I'm doing....situation normal

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Daddles,
They are the Coquina plans by Doug Hylan USA

e.g. Keel Mahogany/D Fir S. 3/4".........

Here am I making stuff without knowing what I'm doing....situation normal

If it's the keel, it's not likely to be 3/4 square them.

A mate of mine used to work in a timber yard and he's told me that when they sold timber, such as a 1" plank, it was 1" sawn, so it was quite a bit less when finally dressed. Maybe there's your answer.

You sure you're weren't sipping the Bundy while dreaming over the plans?

Where's PAR when you need him?

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

If it's the keel, it's not likely to be 3/4 square them.

A mate of mine used to work in a timber yard and he's told me that when they sold timber, such as a 1" plank, it was 1" sawn, so it was quite a bit less when finally dressed. Maybe there's your answer.

You sure you're weren't sipping the Bundy while dreaming over the plans?

Where's PAR when you need him?

Richard

Ah hah just examined said plans and #1 on the list is in fact the keel it actually says.

Keel Mahogany or D Fir Sided 3/4"

So I'm thinking sided means thicknessed or dressed to 3/4 maybe. Is this shipwright speak?

From then on the "S." appears so S is the abreviation for sided.

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

I'm guessing it is short for "say" or perhaps give or take.

My feeble brain cells have just dredged out the notation for measurements that aren't quite what the number says, but I've only come across it in tables of offsets ... in imperial (no need for it in metric).

If the number is say 6 3/8", but the actual measurement is 1/16 more, you put a + sign next to it, or a - sign if it's the other way. Just a way of say it's a bit over (or under) the given measurement.

I reckon the bugga's just put S that there to tease you and it actually doesn't mean anything

Richard

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Ah hah just examined said plans and #1 on the list is in fact the keel it actually says.

Keel Mahogany or D Fir Sided 3/4"

So I'm thinking sided means thicknessed or dressed to 3/4 maybe. Is this shipwright speak?

From then on the "S." appears so S is the abreviation for sided.

Doncha love cross posting (this reply went up when I was doing my last post)

Dunno mate, you might be onto the answer though.

Richard

What are doing reading the plans anyway? That is the path to madness ... as this conversation is proving

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

What are doing reading the plans anyway? That is the path to madness ... as this conversation is proving

Richard

They are like instructions after making a pattern, cutting out the bit examining it from all angles and deciding it does not look right you then refer to the plans......that's the way we do things here.

Think I may have answered my own question.

I have found references on USA sites to molded and sided lumber so I think that is Merican for squared and thicknessed.

In the absence of any other explanation I will take S. as being an abbreviation for "dressed thickness"......... Phhew

Just in case some poor sod in the future is stumped in regards to terminology I found this site http://shipwrightintraining.wordpres...-in-your-head/

Mike,

I've only had a very brief look at the postings, and haven't read everything that you and Richard have said, so I may have missed something.

However, normally S means "sided' or "sided dimension" and M means "molded" or "molded dimension" (someone is bound to say "moulded" but it is usually spelt "molded")

"Molded" refers to the dimension in towards the centre of the boat, and "sided" refers to the dimension sort of across-wise. Yes I know that sounds cumbersome, but in a boat nothing is ever at right-angles to the centreline.

Imagine a gunwale made from 42mm x 12mm wrapped around the boat on the flat - it would be "Gunwale M12 S42"

Does this explain it?

Ross

I understand it Ross.

How'd this convention come about? What's wrong with just saying 'use a lump of half inch timber'?

Richard

Yep . . .

There are a lot of these sort of "systems" used in boat building. This is because when the terms were developed, the vast majority of the skilled craftsmen couldn't read a lick, but were intelligent enough to follow instruction. Offset tables are a good example of this. Traditionally, they were arranged in feet, inches and eighths of an inch. Most could figure out the feet and inch marks on the measuring stick and they counted eighths off as they needed them, which is why you might have an offset marked as 2-3-2, which reads as 2 feet, 3 inches and 2 eighths. The builder couldn't be expected to understand "higher math" such as fractions (2 eighths is a 1/4"), but they could count up 2 eighth marks on a stick.

The "tick stick" or "joggle stick" is another example of illiterate builders, adapting what they had. I use the joggle stick all the time, as it's much faster and usually more accurate then making measurements and templates.

Molded and sided dimensioning came from this need to develop a standard system that any illiterate builder could employ. Molding was the dimension from the inside of the planking inward, siding the thickness of this piece. A keel's 6" molded dimention is very different then a sheer clamp's 6" molded dimension, relative to each other (~90 degree difference), but not to the inside of the planking.

"Use a lump of 1/2" . . ." is nice, but it doesn't tell you how to orient the 1/2" dimention, but preceeded by a "S" or "M" you know precisely how it's oriented.

There will be a test on Friday . . .

The convention came about because bits in boats bend and twist over their length, and "2 inches wide x 4 inches high" in one part of the boat may well turn into "2 inches high x 4 inches wide" in another section. But, "molded 4 inches, sided 2 inches" always means the same thing - even if the boat is upside down on a 45 degree slope.

Ross

Many thanks for the replies gentlemen.

I can say some level of confidence has returned to this boat building lark.

Paul the theory tests are OK it's the practical ones that worry me.