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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter View Post
    What surprised me when I checked as I was writing the post was how close it was.

    First reaction being, surely that's not correct.

    To me, 4.5 knots average also sounds a bit high!!! Can rowing really be so much quicker than sailing?

    Clint, have you actually achieved regularly that sort of speed with no tidal effect? It's pretty impressive to me as a sailor.

    Brian
    Heading into the wind, the rower has all sorts of advantages. On a broad reach ... I'll back the bod with the big flappy thing over his head. It's point to point time that counts ... and the effort involved I guess.

    I'm really looking forward to comparing my rowing skiff with sailing boats, not because I want to stick up the flappy stuff bods (though that won't stop me) but because I'm interested. The final answer though will always be that it's less tiring to sit in the boat and let those damned sails do all the work than it is to sit up on an exposed thwart and do all the work yourself.

    Richard

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  3. #212
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    Aug 2006
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    Collie
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    In my guideboat on the river I find I can row at around 8km/h sustained which is 4.3knots. A seakayak is similar and a wildwater racing kayak is around 10km/h, marathon kayak faster still.

    Kelvin

  4. #213
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Portland, ME USA
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    Default Row Hard or Go Home (as they say)

    I can average 4.5kts over about 3 hours no matter what the wind in tide given average currents and summer winds in my area. Sorry, I got the math wrong. But 4.5 is when I am in shape...not ironman shape, just good rowing condition. Average wind/tide in my area that I am thinking of: 5-10kts of wind and 1-2 foot seas, current runs 1 to 1 1/2 knots. Most of my rows are about half time with the current/half against it. I usually row with light wind...actually I prefer a little wind. But 4.5kts gets tiring to maintain once the wind is consistently above 10kts because you end up rowing in some chop. But I swear, Drake just charges through chop and does not mind wind!

    The Guideboat info above seems accurate and supports my info. All this depends on the rower and his/her physical condition, MENTAL condition (key point), and technique. Is he quick at the catch...have a rating well matched to the conditions and the OARS. We have not talked about OARS. Good oars are key to this all. My 4.5 figure is a start...I aim for higher avg. speed in my revisions and future designs/builds.

    In the Small Reach Regatta we have here in Maine at WoodenBoat, the rowboats always get to the stop point faster than the sailboats. The reason is that in a good rowboat, you can head straight up the rhumb line while a sailboat needs to beat up the rhumb line. So if the destination is windward, the rower will get there first. Things are different off the wind...sailing can be used as auxiliary power and you range can increase (not necessarily speed) but your range can go up hugely because you can save energy and use the wind. I have a sail I take a long in Drake to take advantage of these conditions. A proper rowboat can be sailed beautifully downwind. This is harder in a flat-bottom skiff and a dory perhaps because of the lack of lat. resistance. But a v-bottom boat with a bit of a keel can be sailed as high as a beam reach. And you can go fast! Honestly, mostly I don't bring the rig because I just want to row. But on the row where this picture was taken, I went out for the day (a 30km day). The sail was about 10 minutes, the rest of the row was upwind and current. I probably went more like 3.5 kts average that day. Stopped at some islands, lounged, and really tried to row slowly because I wanted to make it home. It is good to always have energy for the end of the row...the wind piped up to 15-20kts on the nose (actually it was a little off the port bow) and I had to row a good 3-4 miles into 2' white capping waves. That was a hard stretch! But remarkably dry, safe and still somewhat enjoyable in Drake. I stopped to pick up a mooring and nap for an hour!

    --Clint
    Last edited by CCBB; 25th October 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Pics

  5. #214
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    May 2008
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    Default kits

    Quote Originally Posted by bloggs1968 View Post
    Never a truer word spoken Clint!


    Good luck with your kit development.

    regards,

    AD
    Always nice to hear from you Andrew! I'll keep all posted as I kit out Drake the hard way. In Nov I start a month long course on Rhino/CAD and hopefully get some abilities to make the design process faster and more oriented to kits.

    To echo Richards sentiments, I agree that plans should be available to good builders....if someone is set on building from plans, and has some experience, they ought to have the option to just buy plans. That is how I felt when I approach Swallowboats with some interest in building a Bayraider...I was paying a premium for the exchange rate..I didn't want a kit to have to be shipped across the Atlantic!

    For Drake, the selling point for kits is that she can be built darned fast since there is only 3 planks per side and because there is so much twist in the garboards having a kit will mean easier planking for new boatbuilders.

    Cheers

  6. #215
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    Looking through some pictures on the Net I found some photos of a rowboat from the 1880's which has a hull shape that I think would be close to ideal for the purpose proposed at the start of this thread.




    And this picture from 1948 of a rowboat in the surf

  7. #216
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    Cool shots...I am going to get these to Ben Fuller, local guru of all boats small and nifty.

    They look like Sea Bright Skiffs, from the coast of New Jersey.

    Clint

  8. #217
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    I think you are correct as the location of the first two photos is Sea Bright, New Jersey.
    LIFE: A boy draining and washing a fishing row... - Hosted by Google

    Kelvin

  9. #218
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    May 2008
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    Portland, ME USA
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    Very cool boats. They are a little burdensome, but darn beautiful to look at. Two men fished out of these like the dories.

    Clint

  10. #219
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    May 2008
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    UK
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    Really missing this thread!!

    Any news?

    Perhaps not quite "seagoing - beach launching" Clint's interest in Pete Culler's Otter has lead me to read more about it. Borrowing my son's copy of one of Culler's books it features Otter many times. One of the pictures show Pete sat at the oars of his Otter looking perfectly comfortable. The oar locks are very long, angled outwards and seem to place everything in just the right place.

    They also mean there is no need for the hull to be built so high and so wide, hence a much lighter and simpler build.

    Cannot post the picture of Pete, but here's the oarlock from Clint's site



    Reading more about the Herreshoff and Culler boats it is striking that simple flat bottomed designs can be so well regarded and fast.

    It is also nice to have realised that Michalak has simplfied both designs for ply construction, with plans available from Duckworks.

    Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

    Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

    Brian

  11. #220
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    Aug 2011
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    UK
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    Default Skerrieskiff and other boats

    Hi All,

    Coming late to this thread (and new to the forum) but thought to add a little 1st hand knowledge to the issue over the Cornish Flash Boats and Skiffs. I rowed both for all of my teenage years in Cornwall, particularly off Looe where it gets pretty rough - particularly on the 'Bar' at the harbour entrance when there is an easterly blowing. The flash boats are a real handful to row single handed, they are usually rowed 4 up with a cox or as a novelty race in 'randan' mode with two pairs of paddles. The skiffs (or 15 footers as we called them) are very nice to row: track well and handle the sea ok - they are heavy though being traditionally built.

    Brian,


    I am very interested in your experiences with the Skerrieskiff as I am looking for boat project number 2 (currently building a Mouse pram) - I love the looks of Iain O's boats and would love an Arctic Tern - but time and cost may preclude this so looking at the Skerrieskiff 17 as a possible substitute. So a couple of questions please:
    • How does she sail?
    • How tender is she? (planning on teaching my kids to sail)
    I'd also appreciate any additional comments you have

    Many Thanks

    Ian

  12. #221
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
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    Why not make two sets and depending on the overall conditions at the time usethe most suitable. It could be a trial and error outcome.

    The whitehall would take a lot of beating as a design for the gulf. Traditionally 17ft but can be made shorter. i can supply offsets for it if you like. just PM if you would like them

  13. #222
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
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    1

    Default Imagine my surprise to see some of the boats that I row in.

    So there I was casually glancing through the forum and I come across a photo of Calstock in cornwall with some boats that I row in.

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter View Post
    Absolutely! Bend your back or bend your legs! Just see how the Cornish ladies put their backs into it.



    Those Cornish Skiffs - Guideboat.. Skiff...Guideboat.....Skiff



    Brian
    Here is a video of those very boats:

    Jo Goes Rowing on the River Tamar at Calstock in Cornwall - YouTube

    Enjoy

  14. #223
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    UK
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    Jo, how kind of you to post your video of the Cornish Skiff (and Flashboat?) in action. Much appreciated.

    I noticed your videos also included two SCAMP videos. Is SCAMP a favourite?

    Brian

  15. #224
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    Oct 2006
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    Tyrendarra Vic.
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    Brien , have you been following the whaleboat thread as well ?.
    There is video taken by a forumite of a crew training for this weekends whaleboat races.
    Regards Rob J.

  16. #225
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    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddles View Post
    Mate, if I could leave the kids for that long, I'd take Redback the length of the Murray - think of the travel book that'd make, the Murray in a 7' boat

    Richard
    (I'm serious, but can't escape the kids for long enough )
    Course you can! Just let them grow up a bit ( ten years later.....)

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