Thanks Thanks:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 7 of 16 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 227
  1. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    2,139

    Default

    Rob,
    Have a read of this thread it may help you, it's like riding a bike one day it clicks.

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tyrendarra Vic.
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    Thanks for that , thats the way I'd been doing it , I believed.
    But on checking , the photo is 2.2 MB , so maybe the system just couldn't handle it.
    Rob J.

  4. #93
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tyrendarra Vic.
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    Another try.
    Still didn't work.
    I'm gonna leave it at that.
    See ya.
    Rob J.

  5. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eustis, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    I was able to view the boat and it clearly misses the requirements on several points, but is a nice craft as it is.

  6. #95
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    848

    Default

    Richard, it's great that you have sorted a good design for your needs. Just thought I would update how the Skerrieskiff was coming along.

    Finished making a sail for the little Skerrieskiff and rigged her yesterday. Looking at her underwater profile it does look very much a rowing hull. This picture illustrates the quite narrow waterlines and the plank keel. The rudder covers the very seaworthy stern.



    Here from above. 4'7" beam giving good spread for the oarlocks. The sail I made is a very simple one, with no battens so it will roll up very neatly, something which has to be helpful in a 50/50 boat.



    The little Dacron sail newly raised, looking quite nice to say it cost so little. Just look at that lovely Oughtred sheerline.



    Brian

  7. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Collie
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Warning long post.

    The reinvigoration of this thread made me decide to do some performance testing on my Adirondack Guideboat in conditions, so with 30 knot westerly winds forecast and a strong outgoing tide I took it to “The Cut” at Bunbury.

    Firstly a bit of background on myself, I’m a paddler not a rower so although I have kayaking experience in whitewater up to grade 5 and seakayaking in conditions on exposed coasts my rowing experience prior to launching the guideboat last year was limited to a few times in rowing shells as a teenager. I had only used the guideboat on flatwater other than an upstream eddyhopping trip on my local river when it was high.

    “The Cut” is a man made channel where the estuary flows into the ocean that was created when construction of the inner harbour closed off the original channel. I launched from the boat ramp which is in a sheltered corner just inside the estuary, rowed out into the channel and measured the wind at 16 knots on my handheld anemometer. Later gusts were stronger, at least 20 and possibly up to 25 knots but I wasn’t willing to put down the oars to take more readings. The outgoing tide flows in excess of 10km/h in the middle of the channel and the wind and waves were going in the opposite direction.

    I spent an hour mostly doing circuits rowing out in the relatively sheltered water along the edge until halfway out then heading out into the middle and surfing back in. Waves were steep due to the current and generally up to 3’ (they reached the horizon) but I had one “Oh …..” moment when a 4’ wave beginning to crumble came through. The boat rode it bow first without taking on a drop. The boat also took the 3’ waves beam on without taking on water while remaining horizontal. I’m very impressed with how well the cross section and freeboard are optimised so it only begins to tilt if the wave would otherwise come over the gunwale. If I let the boat drift freely it would lie beam on to the wind and waves, and if there was much wind you couldn’t turn into the wind. The current may have had something to do with this as normally on flatwater I can trim it by moving the anchor and chain to make it leecock or weathercock.

    Rowing out was extremely hard work so by the end of the hour I had blisters and was drenched in sweat. Coming back in was another matter entirely as the boat surfed very easily and the trailing oars work very well as sweeps and I never broached although I did come close a few times. It was almost surreal as it’s the first time I’ve surfed a craft where you are looking backwards and you can see the wave rearing up behind you but it doesn’t get any closer even though you can’t row to get away as the water is moving faster than you can move the oars. It’s like you are moving fast and staying in one place both at the same time, a bit like kayak surfing a standing wave on a river. The top speed I hit on the GPS was 15.9 km/h which I achieved while I wasn’t rowing. Adding in the speed of the outgoing current would give a water speed of over 25 km/h or double my top flat water rowing speed in the boat. All in all a lot of fun with a bit of fear thrown in, but I’d feel much safer in a kayak.

  8. #97
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Collie
    Posts
    93

    Default

    So what did I learn from my testing session that is relevant to choosing a boat?

    With the size boats being considered, unless you have a sheltered location to launch I think it will be difficult to solo launch in winds above 10 knots and probably dangerous above 15 knots. The original size of PAR’s design might be easier but it’s still a lot of area for the wind to catch so launching from a windswept beach may be inadvisable. Driving with it on the roof was unnerving in the wind too.

    As PAR said build it light, it makes it much easier to man handle it alone. My guideboat is aprox 25kg and if I built another one it would be lighter. Strength doesn’t seem to be a problem for recreational rowing and the only damage mine has sustained is a few chips along the chine from hitting rocks. I’ve inadvertently rammed the side of a moored boat where my 25kg of paulownia met about a ton of jarrah planking at speed and bounced off the rubber strip unharmed. Several times an oar has hit a rock during the catch phase and the whole boat is thrust violently sideways but hasn’t sustained damage. In my opinion the only part that needs to be strong is the rowlock/seat/footrest section as this is where the force is concentrated.

    Avoid cross handed rowing. It’s easy to adjust to on flatwater but when you are urgently manoeuvring in rough conditions it’s a PITA. I may get a pair of 7ft oars to use when it’s rough.

    For use on a rough ocean I would deck over as much of the boat as possible with sealed bulkheads and fit an electric bilge pump. It probably won’t be needed but if you do swamp it will make life a lot easier.

    Cross section shape, this is difficult to judge. The narrower plank keel of a guideboat combined with deadrise gives a hull that remains horizontal while beam waves pass but has low initial stability which makes launching harder. PAR’s design will be much more stable but would rock more on beam waves. Probably not enough to dip the gunwale so probably a better choice than the guideboat for beach launching. I’m currently reading “The Whaleboat a study of design, construction and use from 1850 to 1970” by Willits D Ansel and the whaleboats tend to have a cross section somewhere between the other two designs but lack a wide plank keel so may not keep the boat upright on land.

    I think you need plenty of flare in the ends to help going over waves and to give a dry ride.

    Length, if you want speed in moderate conditions then probably around 16ft, if you want ease of handling on shore and handling in rough conditions then the original length of PAR’s could be better. I don’t think downwind surfing runs need the extra length as you are at planning speed and the wider flat area would help planning.

    This is all stuff off the top of my head so I hope it makes sense to people. I thought I should write it while it was still fresh. Please point out anything I’ve got wrong.

    Kelvin

  9. #98
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    848

    Default

    Terrific posts Kelvin. What size did you build and which plans?

    Brian

  10. #99
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    Thanks for all that Kelvin, plenty to think about in there.

    With the wind affecting your guideboat, would that have anything to do with that apparently very large bow and stern?

    Richard

  11. #100
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    Keep us posted on the Skerrieskiff Brian.

    I'd love to know what Iain O was thinking when he designed that boat. My earlier thoughts on beam have been well and truly proven to be rubbish ... probably for the best. However, I've read too often about rowing boats being compromised to take sail, but maybe this series go the other way.

    Richard

  12. #101
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    This whole question is causing me a lot of angst at the moment. I really want to get stuck into PAR's double ender, I want to build that rowboat ... but I've got this half built, 14 foot, family daysailer in the shed, a boat that'll be lovely when built but one which, financially, I can't afford to finish and which, if I do finish, I wonder if I'll use. Hell, I never even chose that boat (it's a weird, irrelevant story but it's true, I never actually chose to build her) and it's only ever been a compromise. I can see it being useful in the family ... provided I take to sailing ... which I haven't done and once again, find summer approaching with me promising that THIS time, I will get this sailing business sorted out. Then there's the cost - hell, I'm renting, unemployed and facing a future of short term contracts at best - apart from the actual costs of finishing the woodwork in Sixpence, I'm faced with buying a trailer plus a set of sails plus ongoing registration costs (which, to be honest, may not be all that great). On the other hand, for a similar or smaller outlay, I can build PAR's rowboat that I can carry on my existing trailer ... which I'd really like to do (hell, I was so excited last week I was researching the meaning and spelling of the name that was suggesting itself to me).

    The worst thing about passions is that you can talk yourself into anything you want to do and out of anything you've decided you don't want to.

    At the moment, I'm talking myself into finishing Sixpence ...

    Ah well, maybe the Little Black Dog will give me a reality slap in the face and she will allow me to discover what I actually WILL do with rowboats as opposed to what I'd like to do, and there is part of me wondering just how well this 'flat water boat' will handle stuff she's not supposed to.

    Richard

  13. #102
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    848

    Default

    I can only offer the sympathy of a fellow sufferer! No income, too many boats, too many ideas, my pals are certain I need treatment!

    Brian

  14. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tyrendarra Vic.
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    Richard , this thread truely has some very good contributions.
    With no real help from me , up till now.
    But one thing I'd strongly suggest you do , is get out there and get Sailing !!!,
    I resolved to do that about this time last year , when we started our move to the coast , and I finished up sailing 3+days a week !.
    I joined the yacht club , and always had a crewing job at the Saturday meetings.
    And I just went and introduced myself to the skipper of the biggest , most awesome couta boat in the harbour , and I had another 1-2 sails a week.
    The simple fact of the matter is that they are short of crew , I was welcomed with open arms , inexperienced though I was.
    I think if you do that , get out on the water , you will have a whole new outlook on your boatbuilding situation.
    Thats something you CAN do , that won't cost you anything , and will have a positive result.
    Get out on the water.
    Do it mate !.
    It really is fun !.
    Regards Rob J.

  15. #104
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Collie
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Brian, I used the plans from Guillemot http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/node/52/draw It's built to the same size as the drawings. There are some pics in the thread https://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/floats-guideboat-test-launch-84581

    Richard, the height of the ends is mostly an illusion created by the low freeboard in the center. The height above the waterline is only about the same as the bow on PAR's design. Being a symetrical hull the ends also tend to balance each other out. I think the low freeboard is due to the low stability of the hull requiring a low seat and therefore low gunwales to place the rowlocks at the right height.

    Giving it some more thought I think the inability to turn upwind was due to the fast outgoing current. The current would have made it difficult to get an adequate grip with the oars in the direction required to turn upwind/downstream but would have made turning downwind/upstream easier. If I'd modified my technique by doing the strokes mostly in the forward quadrant it may have worked better.

    If it matters I was using traditional diamond cross section oars.

    Kelvin

  16. #105
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJL38 View Post
    Brian, I used the plans from Guillemot http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/node/52/draw It's built to the same size as the drawings. There are some pics in the thread https://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/floats-guideboat-test-launch-84581
    The Adirondak Guideboat people must be annoyed with that as they seem to be rather protective of 'their' boat

    Funny crossection on the thing, I see why you comment on the low initial stability.

    Richard, the height of the ends is mostly an illusion created by the low freeboard in the center. The height above the waterline is only about the same as the bow on PAR's design. Being a symetrical hull the ends also tend to balance each other out. I think the low freeboard is due to the low stability of the hull requiring a low seat and therefore low gunwales to place the rowlocks at the right height.
    If I remember rightly from something I've seen, you're spot on there. It does give the boat a rather unique look.
    The balanced effect of the ends makes sense too ... which probably means it's outrageously wrong

    Giving it some more thought I think the inability to turn upwind was due to the fast outgoing current. The current would have made it difficult to get an adequate grip with the oars in the direction required to turn upwind/downstream but would have made turning downwind/upstream easier. If I'd modified my technique by doing the strokes mostly in the forward quadrant it may have worked better.

    If it matters I was using traditional diamond cross section oars.

    Kelvin
    Perfect reason to make a set of Mik's spoon shaped oars and to get back to us with a report

    Richard

Page 7 of 16 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Building a Storer Rowboat
    By bitingmidge in forum Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 16th March 2011, 06:23 PM
  2. Carving a hardwood Whaleboat (rowboat) miniture
    By Jason King in forum BOAT DESIGNS / PLANS
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 7th April 2008, 08:53 PM
  3. New Rowboat Project
    By bitingmidge in forum BOAT DESIGNS / PLANS
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 8th November 2005, 07:30 PM
  4. Sizing considerations for wood screws:
    By RETIRED in forum WOODWORK - GENERAL
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10th July 2001, 09:25 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •