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Thread: Fastenings
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21st August 2012, 03:09 PM #1New Member
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Fastenings
Hello All,
Im just starting of on my boat building journey and I was wondering what fastenings I should use to build my 5.5 m overnighter boat?
I have read that silicon bronze is the best to use, but there is also a more economical version hot-dipped galvanized fasteners. I can however not find a place to buy them in WA. Anyone know a place to get them? What are the arguments against using hot-dipped galvanized ones?
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23rd August 2012, 12:44 AM #2Cranky old fart
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What sort of boat? Trailer or permanently moored?
If it is a trailer boat and you don't want to use silicon bronze you could get away with stainless steel, but don't use stainless below the water line on a moored boat. Probably still OK for topsides.
Arguments against galvanised? Lets assume you can actually find them first!
For me though the real question is why you wouldn't just use silicon bronze fasteners. They look good on a wooden boat like they are meant to be there, highly corrosion resistant in salt water, and are readily available through several on-line suppliers. A little bit expensive, but not really if you buy in quantities. Nothing is cheap on a boat anyway!
Tell us more about what you are building.
Cheers, Cameron.
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23rd August 2012, 08:31 AM #3New Member
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Here is a link to the plans I am using.
https://www.boatdesigns.com/17-Sea-K.../products/412/
I want to trailer the boat so definitely no permanent water contact.
I guess what im realy trying to ascertain is what the cost difference is between the silicon and the galvanized fasteners, as well as the advantages/disadvantages. You are right, bronze does look better on a wooden boat. But, as I'm covering the hull in glass no one will actually see them. I could use the bronze topside.
Cheers
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23rd August 2012, 09:32 AM #4
First off, don't mix and match metals, just pick one and stick with it, to prevent corrosion issues later.
Bronze is nice, but costly, if building with epoxy, use stainless fasteners, not galvanized. Most galvanized stock is not as good as it use to be and just rusts quickly. There's nothing worse than rust stains from all the fasteners, remaining in stained drips down her flanks. Epoxy, in encapsulated wood, using stainless fasteners is the economical way to go.
If not epoxy encapsulating the build, then galvanized is and option, but insure hot dipped and make sure the fastener holes have proper clearance and pilot holes for each.
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23rd August 2012, 02:18 PM #5
Where the heck is BUTLER??
Seriously, I agree with the other posts, with the exception that I would not use Galvanized fastenings on any boat I build,.
As PAR said they are not as good as they were 20years ago, use Stainless Steel screws, you will not regret it, and maintenance will be normal,
Stainless Steel either Phillips head or square drive and drill a pilot hole first, and you will never have an issue, .
Buy in bulk and prices will be better.
Jeff
vk4
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23rd August 2012, 07:59 PM #6
While cleaning out a portion of my barn (last year), that seems to just be a "catch all" for stuff I have left over, I found a box of hot dipped lags I bought, maybe 30 years ago. I was amazed by the price, which was half of what is is now, but more importantly the huge difference between what was once called hot dipped and the junk they sell today as hot dipped. I don't know what they've done, possably diluted the galvanizing process some how, but the old stock has a lot more material on them, then anything you can buy now. They look nearly as good as they did when purchased, but they do have rust in spots on some and have lived mostly in doors their whole life, so think about it, if strongly considering galvanized fasteners.
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24th August 2012, 04:01 PM #7New Member
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Many Thanks for the replies. Much food for thought.
I'll have to tally up the amount of fastening material I need so that I can get an estimate on costs. Everything needs to be in relation to the fact that this will be my first boat build. But having said that I don't want any regrets when I'm out on the water.
Butler is in the wonderful state of West Australia, at the northern edge of Perth.
Cheers
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24th August 2012, 07:42 PM #8
M42,
Thanks I did not know where you were, as there are post's from all over the world on here.
Use stainless steel screws, as i and the others have recommended, set the heads 1-2mm into the ply then fill,sand and glass, there will never be an issue, I suggest a good quality epoxy resin , I have used BOAT COTE on 2 boats I have built and have not had any problems, though there are others on the market.
For fillers I use Micro Balloons, and I use a glue powder additive for all gluing , I do not buy a separate glue for assembly.
Re guards Ply Wood, I have not used MARINE PLY , due to costs, I have found that if you check your ply carefully , ensure that the Ply has a AAA glue line (WATER PROOF), and it has no voids , or major Knots in the surface Ply's you will be fine, (I'll probably upset PAR ,), My own Mangrove Jack is built with Pacific Maple Plywood, and performs to design Spec's.
Jeff
vk4
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31st August 2012, 10:22 AM #9Senior Member
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Have you worked out how to get the ABP compliance that you'll need to register this boat in WA?You may find it easier to go with a design like one of Mark Bowditch's,he has addressed this issue-I'd hate to hear later that you hit a bureaucratic wall after building it.
Cheers,
Dave.
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31st August 2012, 07:35 PM #10
Dave
I have the first MANGROVEJACK, from Mark's drawing board, ( i actually commissioned the design ),
All you have to certify is the Bouyency of the boat , the No of passengers , motor weight &HP, and the carrying cap of the boat, These are a certified design and will have most of this detail, If they don't the Plan supplier should be able to provide the information.
Jeff
vk4
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1st September 2012, 10:37 AM #11Senior Member
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Jeff,that's fine if the designer provides acceptable certification,but most designers, in particular those overseas,would be unfamiliar with the ABP,and furthermore the legislation varies from state to state.Hopefully M42 will have a smooth run but he would be well-advised to do his homework before commencement,he wouldn't want to be forking out possibly hundreds or more for local certification because of some legality.
Cheers,
Dave.
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1st September 2012, 08:17 PM #12
I agree
Jeff
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5th September 2012, 01:30 AM #13New Member
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I didn't realize that the boat needed to be ABP compliant. I will have to check this up with the authorities. I would tear the last of my hear out if they stone wall me.
Thanks for the warning.
Cheers
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5th September 2012, 10:01 PM #14
Small parts are typically placed in a basket for dipping; then the basket is spun to drive off excess zinc. Higher speed, or longer spinning, drives more of the zinc back into the tank. Hence the reduction in quality.
For marine applications, use type 316 SS, for better corrosion resistance.
Cheers,
JoeOf course truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense. - Mark Twain
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6th September 2012, 08:07 PM #15procrastinator
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In Western Australia the regulations for ABP are
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/FileStore.nsf/Documents/MRDocument:23933P/$FILE/NavigableWatrRegs1958-15-a0-00.pdf?OpenElement
which basically says you need one to register a boat and
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/FileStore.nsf/Documents/MRDocument:5487P/$FILE/FairTradeProdtInfoStandRegs2005_01-a0-03.pdf?OpenElement
says it must comply with the “National Standard for the Australian
Builders Plate for Recreational Boats” which can be found at
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/media/pages_m...s/ABP_Ed_4.pdf
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