8th Sep 2011, 10:29 PM #136
This thread seems to be just "withering on the vine".
It was informative though !.
Regards Rob J.
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8th Sep 2011, 10:36 PM #137
The thread is in suspense awaiting the next twist.
Did you see Browns latest Forestry deal down to Burke, says Brown - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
The issue is very much alive.Mike
"Working to a rigidly defined method of doubt and uncertainty"
8th Sep 2011, 10:44 PM #138
I'm afraid Brown has lost me , completely.
I'm hoping for some good news one day , but its not going to come from him !.
Unless he decides to jump off the sinking ship !.
9th Sep 2011, 09:40 AM #139
Off on a slight tangent.
Sounds like another tax , to me , but not for the big operators !!!!.
The MIS schemes around here are an absolute disaster for the locals , but it seems fine for the politicians , and the owners , wherever they are.
Part of the problem was the deep contour ploughing put in place when the monocrop is put in place , effectively holding and using up all of the water for the trees , and drying up dams and creeks that have been reliable water sources for up to 150 years.
But another tax isn't the solution , I believe.
Smaller , well thought out and appropriate "Land Care" projects are.
And this scheme means if you did plant trees that were not indiginous to the area , like me planting Huon and Celery Top , then the government is going to have their hand out !!.
The whole thing seems to be a BS accountancy exercise , good for accountants , and the government , a disaster for the locals.
10th Sep 2011, 07:03 PM #140
I'm trying to think of a more stupid plan, but can't off-hand.
They want people to pay buckets of money, to water trees that they won't be
allowed to harvest. Ever.,
Q.1 What drugs are they on ???
Q.2 Where can I get some ??
10th Sep 2011, 07:51 PM #141
My understanding AJ is that if you plant "local " trees , then you don't pay for water .
But you can't harvest them , ever !!!.
If you plant something that is not "local" , potentially trees of real value in the future , then you pay for water , even if it is NOT available to you !.
Unless you are "big time" , and you don't have to pay !.
Yes , it is good to see them recognise the effect of these contour ploughed huge monocrops has on water catchment , but the answer , I believe , is not to depopulate and sow down to tree monocrops , but to retain the farmers , and the communities they support , and promote smaller , productive plantations.
Lots of long windbreaks , and sowing down recharge areas , or bogs , or badly eroded areas to well managed tree plantations makes a lot more sense to me.
That way we retain the farmers , and they enjoy the benefits of carefully sown , and appropriate plantations.
And the communities remain.
But FORCING all landowners to turn over part of their properties to local timbers , or if they plant trees of value to then pay for water they may not ever see is , well crazy !.
Its just another tax.
I was talking to my dairy farmer neighbour today , he was mad as hell.
He will be paying up to $10,000 extra for his electricity per year , and he will get less for his milk , because the processor also pays more for electricity , and reduces his return about the same.
And now he will be forced to turn over part of his highly productive dairy farm to trees !.
"Not happy JAN !".
Also , smaller plantations are a lot easier to manage , and protect from fire.
Whats the good of having these huge "carbon sinks" , if they are going to burn every few years "!.
Oh , thats right , plantations don't burn !.
I'll just plant out my huons , and celery top , whatever else I think of , stuff 'em !.
Regards Rob J.
12th Sep 2011, 03:17 PM #142
The greenies have spoken , no more logging in old growth forest
"Tasmanian police are at a protest in Picton Valley in the state's south.
Protesters from the Huon Valley Environment Centre have tied a platform to six logging machines at the site.
The centre's spokeswoman, Jenny Weber, says the group is opposing continued logging of old growth forests.
"Logging has been going on in these forests for the past two weeks, which commenced after the Heads of Agreement and after the inter-governmental agreement where Tasmania was promised that 430,000 hectares would be protected."
"There will be a number of protesters moved on by police, however the person in the structure will say that we will not be moving on," she said.".
They run the state (and the country) don't they ?.
12th Sep 2011, 08:58 PM #143
Rob, there is a really sad story unfolding in the coroners court here about a young girl whose car was struck by a falling branch from a grey box growing right along side a main arterial road.
Unfortunately she died as a result of severe head injuries.
The tree has been subject to safety complaints to the council as it has a history of dropping limbs. It's unclear if any action was taken, regardless the tree still stands and in my mind is a testament to how well intentioned policy has gone wrong.
It seems public safety and community well being come ahead of trees even in built up areas and tree conservation has reached ridiculous levels.
Lets hope some common sense returns to the conservation debate, I'm not holding my breath though.Mike
"Working to a rigidly defined method of doubt and uncertainty"
12th Sep 2011, 09:57 PM #144
I saw that Mike , and yes , I sat and reflected a while.
Because , prior to "Black Saturday" , I was involved in a debate in our local paper (at my old farm), about dangerous trees next to roads.
Vic Roads wanted to remove 3-4 trees that were too close to a major road , that had already caused a lot of damage and injury.
But a vocal minority of "tree huggers" wanted the trees to remain. They said they hadn't moved out from Melbourne to see the coutryside chainsawed down , and concreted !!! (true) !!.
I tried to point out that the much maligned Vic Roads was only taking out trees that posed real risks to motorists .
They said that the motorists should slow down.
I pointed out the experience in the Ash Wednesday fires , where a lot of people fleeing the fires couldn't get off the road for burning trees and undergrowth , were hit by other cars , and all perished.
I tried to tell them of finding my old mate , that I gardened for in Macedon , who had been trying to flee the fire , got hung up on some "habitat" , and was incinerated.
I tried to tell them of the result of declaring the road out in front of my place "habitat" , when all it did was funnel fire in to the old village we were part of.
I had long conversations with the old timers , on the local fire behaviour , and again , their friends and family being incinerated.
I , we , were called all sorts of names , for what we believed was just common sense.
Just before Black Saturday , a popular local young mother swerved to miss a 'roo , smacked the trees , and was killed.
In Black Saturday , again , roadside trees and vegetation was the death sentence of many many Victorians.
I guess I won the argument , but at what a price !.
Down here , both of my farmer neighbours are officers in the local CFA , and they are more than happy to see the work I do to make the place less fire prone.
And a lot of unsafe roadside trees have been taken down around the state since the Black Saturday disaster.
So yes Mike , I read that story , I looked at that pretty young face in the picture , and I too , wonder when these people will "get real "!.
Regards Rob J.
12th Sep 2011, 10:17 PM #145
BB won't be pleased !
"Tasmanian police have removed a group of protesters from a logging coupe in the Picton Valley, south-west of Hobart.
One activist who roped himself to log trucks has been summonsed to appear in court.
The protestors from the Huon Valley Environment Centre oppose the logging of old growth native forests.
Spokeswoman Jenny Weber says the group feels the inter-governmental peace deal is being ignored.
"What we're calling for is for these promises of immediate protection to be funded and for no new logging to start in these high conservation forests.
"Logging has been going on in these forests for the past two weeks, which commenced after the Heads of Agreement and after the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) where Tasmania was promised that 430,000 hectares would be protected," she said.
A spokesman for Forestry Tasmania, spokesman, Ken Jeffreys, says while the coupe is inside the 430,000 hectares to be reserved under the IGA, some harvesting needs to continue to meet its current contracts.
He says Forestry Tasmania is abiding by the peace deal."
13th Sep 2011, 04:33 AM #146
dunno about other states, but SA local govt has until recently, pursued a
policy of using roadsides as remnant vegetation reserves. With the enthusiastic
backing of the Native Vegetation Council (or whatever its name is this week).
Councils have in the past, been fined for unauthorised lopping of trees/shrubs,
even if it was in the interests of the public safety. A Kangaroo Island council
was fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for pruning back scrub that obscured
a cross-road which had been the scene of multiple crashes, at least one fatal.
The reveg programme has, in my opinion, been the rural equivalent of storing paints
& other flammables in a hi-rise fire stair. In the city, it would be illegal.
But because it's country, it's ok to store fuel along escape routes.
If it's that important, put the plantings on the private side of the fence line,
where they do the same job, but pose vastly less risk to people. 5 of the last
6 fatal crashes in our response area were vehicle vs. tree.
Onkaparinga City Council (mine) has in the last couple of years adopted a
policy of safety corridors. To the howls of protest of the reveg mob, the
council has been quietly slashing & pruning verges along corridor roads which
had previously been handed over to unrestricted plantings of native seedlings.
Minor roads are still freaking scary, but at least the main roads are almost sane.
By way of comparison, the other day I did a Google street view tour of the Bastrop
area in Texas which just had around 1,000 houses destroyed by
bushfire. Looks almost exactly like the area within a 5km radius of my brigade.
13th Sep 2011, 04:35 AM #147
I was going to say "B***er BB"
But that would be politically incorrect.
So I won't.
13th Sep 2011, 09:14 AM #148
Oh yes , AJ , I think we are doing well here , very restrained !.
Yes , your situation sounds like ours was too.
We had an extreme period where the Labor Government had a decree where if you took down or trimmed a tree , you had to plant 10 more , to replace it !!!!.
That included trimming back branches over fence lines.
And we were stopped from slashing or mowing the roadside verge.
I did it for years , cut the grass with a sickle mower , and removed it , for cattle feed.
We were in the middle of an 11 year drought , so it was handy.
But I was stopped from doing that one year.
I had a small 6 head bullock team , and a house cow , so I just tethered them along the side of the road.
They tried to stop me , but I demanded they show me legislation that prevented me from doing it.
I don't know whether they found any or not , but after about a week or so , the cattle had eaten down the roadside grasses anyway.
I still remember , after Ash Wednesday , being on a CFA fire truck and going down real fire trap roads , to tell the owners that if there is another fire , the CFA wouldn't attend down that road , unless it was made a lot safer .
The memory of those firemen and women who were trapped and burnt to death in Ash Wednesday was still vivid in everyones mind.
They cleared the road , common sense prevailed.
Thats all it needs , common sense , a touch of reality.
Regards Rob J.
13th Sep 2011, 10:48 AM #149
Now this is a real worry.I hope AD and the others are heard.
"Signatories to Tasmania's forest peace deal have reached an important agreement, deciding on what constitutes a high-conservation value forest.
The definition has been one of the major sticking points to a lasting peace deal between environment groups and the timber industry.
An academic, Professor Jonathan West, was given the task of brokering an agreement and it had to be signed off by last Saturday.
A State Government spokesman says all the signatories have agreed on Professor West's methodology and his proposal for deciding how much native timber the industry needs to fulfil existing contracts.
Terry Edwards from the Forest Industries Association says he believes the deadline was met.
"I don't want to speak for any other organisation, to the best of my knowledge there was agreement."
"However, every organisation needed to respond individually to Professor West on that issue," he said.
The question that still needs to be answered is whether there will be enough wood to go around, once 430,000 hectares is placed in new reserves.
There is also still concern among signatories about delays in setting up an Independent Verification Group to oversee the negotiations.
The group is being chaired by Professor West but so far no-one else has been appointed.
Mr Edwards says time is running out.
"Unfortunately timelines within the IGA are very tight."
"With the independent verification group being required to report to the Premier and Prime Minister by the 31st of December, that leaves very little time for actual detailed investigative work.
The State Government says it expects to make an announcement about appointments in the next fortnight. ".
13th Sep 2011, 05:13 PM #150
I have stayed away from this discussion recently.
For 1 simple reason.
I know, we, Tasmania are going to loose yet again.
Sorry to be so negative, but some years ago, a few of us decided the State Motto should read.
"THE WASTED STATE". On many levels.
Paul.I FISH THEREFORE I AM.
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