Thread: Oldshoe

I have included a link to Bolger Boats on the Web. Bolger Boats on the Net. This site is very informative. Scroll down to Oldshoe for Boatmik's article.

Thanks,

Andy

Hi All,
The video of the oldshoe on newcastle harbour was posted by me.
The boat is nearly 20 years old now, built by my father in Sydney.I Dad is a keen amateur boatbuilder having built a Pelin Caribou , oldshoe,a trailer sailer to his own design based on the practical ideas used in the micro.That boat was named Charlie Brown and featured on the cover of AABB magazine. I also have that boat here in Newcastle at the moment.There are a string of other small sail boats in his past as well. For my own part my second son and I built a Bolger cartopper a few years ago, still have that one too.

The oldshoe is a great little boat alright ,safe and stable,sails like a much bigger boat. Easily towed and launched, simple to rig. Sounds like I'm trying to sell it doesn't it? It's the family favourite.

I've attached a couple of pics.
Cheers
Kevin

Thanks very much for dropping by Kev. The pictures are great!

MIK

Originally Posted by pindimar

<snip>
The real criticism that I have of the boat, however, is the awkward mainmast. Again, many people don't seem to think it is an issue, but I do. Getting the mast up is not so difficult but getting it down is challenging - very easy to topple over, if you are not very careful. People say that one man can do this. . .well, up, maybe. . .but getting it down by yourself? The bigger boat (Long Micro) has the mast in a tabernacle, so that is not a problem. Bolger came up with a re-design called the Micro II which also has the mast in a tabernacle and what he called a "Chinese Gaff" rig - cross between a Chinese lug sail and a gaff. Now, I'm sure that would be very good, but, of course, it is much more complicated and costly, perhaps.

There are at least two Micros here with Carbon Fibre mainmast and that seems a sensible way to go, as long as costs aren't too high, and the mast is not too lightly built. So, what I've been doing is weighing up the difference between converting the boat to Micro II or getting a carbon fibre mainmast. there may be some news on that front before too long.

<snip>

GregF

Greg,

I am interested in your investigations into tabernacles versus carbon fibre mast. Have you had experience with both alternatives and are able to give some opinions of pros and cons?

How big/heavy is you current mast and how much weight might you save with carbon fibre? Maybe you will you have to have a larger diameter mast in carbon fibre? I've seen the Norwalk Island Sharpie (NIS) boats have a carbon fibre mast in a tabernacle option now. I think it was expensive but sounds like it is the ultimate unstayed mast solution.

Regards,

Andrew
(building an unstayed mast Bolger Chebacco 25)

Warrandyte Wooden Boats

Hello Andrew

There's no doubt that having a good tabernacle is the cheaper way to go but with the as-designed Micro that is not all that easy or convenient to adapt. Duck Flat did a tabernacle adaption for the Micro some years back and I actually bought the plans from them a while back. In fact, I think Mik actually found the plan in their archives at the time. but a combination of looking at that design and what had to be done, and speaking with someone who had that tabernacle made me think that I could find something better. Adapting the tabernacle from Long Micro was suggested at the time, and that tabernacle apparently works very well. But with adapting an as-built boat, there's quite a bit of work to do.

Eventually I saw that Robert Ayliffe had supplied a a carbon fibre mast for a Bolger Micro so I got in touch with Robert about that mast. The basic blank for the mast would have cost $3,000 and the quote that I had for having it adapted to the Micro design would have added another $700 or more to the cost, so that was looking too expensive for me at the time. That mast also had quite a rough finish and a smoother finish would have required either even more money or lots more work.

So since then, I've looked for other suppliers in case there are more manageable alternatives out there. There are other considerations though, such as you say, thickness of the mast , strength, whether the mast has a taper or not, that sort of thing.

The boat builder who adapted the Robert Ayliffe mast for the Bolger Micro was Ross Lillistone at Bayside Wooden Boats in Esk, QLD. He'd be a good person to talk to about a carbon fibre mast having some experience and knowledge on the subject, so I suggest you get in touch with Ross, from his web site.

Good luck with your decision

GregF

You can contact Ross Lillistone

email at [email protected] or [email protected]

Ph. 07 5424 1552 (International 61 7 5424 1552)

Mob 0416 184 675

The mast I made for the Micro that I built in 2001/2002 was a hollow "bird's mouth" mast to the same external dimensions as the plan. It turned out to be relatively easy to handle (or so I thought) but the owner found it to be a handful. I suspect that it was more a case of raising and lowering technique, but he ended up ordering the carbon blank from Robert Alyiffe and I carried out the modifications required to get it into the existing boat.

The mast from Robert is extremely light and whippy, but is certainly very easy to raise and lower. Robert and I discussed the relative merits of "hard" and "soft" masts, and it really comes down to preference. I look at it from the point-of-view of an International Finn sailor, and the stiffness of a mast is critically related to the weight of the skipper. With a Micro, one is not trying to beat other boats around a course, and for some people, the light and whippy mast is preferable as it de-powers in the gusts.

Greg's blank is a stiffer one and will be similar to the wooden equivalent in deflection, I believe. The weight is around 10 kg I think. We are still recovering from the devatating January 10 flash flooding and I've lost my electronic scales.

For those who are interested, I'd recommend shopping around. Speak with Robert Alyiffe for his opinion, as he has a lot of experience with the NIS Sharpies using carbon masts. However, if you want something stiffer, there are other suppliers. I don't want to get into the business of recommending one supplier over another - I don't sell masts and it is not my business - my job here has simply been that of somebody fitting-out and rigging a mast. In fact, I like the hollow wooden one I made!

The mast stepping arrangement in Micro is superbly well arranged as designed. I think that she is too small to have the clutter and complication of a tabernacle, although in Long Micro it is a necessity due to the huge increase in size of the rig. You just need to learn the technique of stepping, but I have to admit that I'm not sure whether I could do it with the originlly designed solid stick. A 23 foot long solid mast is a difficult thing to handle in a strong wind and on the water - I've always stepped and lowered the mast while the boat has been on the trailer on dry land. Carbon masts are certainly much easier to handle!

In a boat which has been designed for a tabernacle from the outset, they can be an absolute God-send. Phil Bolger's Martha Jane is an excellent example - the short mast of the balance lug mainsail is easy to handle, and drops to remain inside the trailering length of the boat. You can even rig a boom tent (mast tent???) from the lowered mast.

Ross Lillistone

Originally Posted by kev@stocko

Hi All,
The video of the oldshoe on newcastle harbour was posted by me.
The boat is nearly 20 years old now, built by my father in Sydney.I Dad is a keen amateur boatbuilder having built a Pelin Caribou , oldshoe,a trailer sailer to his own design based on the practical ideas used in the micro.That boat was named Charlie Brown and featured on the cover of AABB magazine. I also have that boat here in Newcastle at the moment.There are a string of other small sail boats in his past as well. For my own part my second son and I built a Bolger cartopper a few years ago, still have that one too.

The oldshoe is a great little boat alright ,safe and stable,sails like a much bigger boat. Easily towed and launched, simple to rig. Sounds like I'm trying to sell it doesn't it? It's the family favourite.

I've attached a couple of pics.
Cheers
Kevin

Oops! Should have added some more thanks to those of MIK for adding the pictures and information about the Oldshoe Kevin, thanks for both! The boat looks to be very nicely built and finished, with subtle colours an'all!

GregF

There are three video clips on Youtube of an interesting Bolger Oldshoe in the state of Maine, on a very small lake called Chickawaukie Pond:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoBIw5M2r78]YouTube - &#x202a;Sailing Pandora (12' Bolger Oldshoe) Part I&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


Part II:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23zmKGzNlS8"]YouTube - &#x202a;Sailing Pandora (Bolger Cat Yawl &quot;Oldshoe&quot Part II&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

Part III:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23zmKGzNlS8"]YouTube - &#x202a;Sailing Pandora (Bolger Cat Yawl &quot;Oldshoe&quot Part II&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

GregF

There's a Pandora Part IV Youtube now!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDy1j5ANtyo&NR=1]&#x202a;Pandora (Bolger Oldshoe) Part IV&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


GregF

When looking at the Oldshoe Youtube vid. noticed that there's a newish Youtube of a Long Micro - This might be the one built in Thailand by the look of the tropical vegetation?

Well, Oldshoe, Micro & Long Micro are all variations on a theme, after all.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAcSG7RAY6I]&#x202a;long micro&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]



Greg