Thread: Windsor Armchair

A very well proportioned and resolved advance on a stodgy and some what hum drum traditional design.

Beautiful work.
Cheers

Originally Posted by apricotripper

gotcha I think on the Vcut. probably help to see it to appreciate what you mean exactly. Thats the problem I've found with the internet. Its doesn't always engage all your senses. Are you thinking something to what I'm thiiiiinking ?

Shame, time and effort needs to be put into something that doesn't affect its strength. Why is it so important that the surface remains flush anyway ? Which bloke began this association. finding a little step with your finger = bad .

suppose there's another reason why mass production avoids such through joints. No risk of people seeing anything to pick at. Why put so much more time into something that may cause you trouble. Hide it all, including errors in the unseen part. But through joints I think look better. Takes more care to get them right.

It seems to me through, joint stepping is mostly just a hardwood problem, because when its done properly with softwood it seldom occurs. Another little negative against the poor Aussie hardwood.

For me, its going to be. If you want the surface flush ->softwood only. If you want a hardwood -> I'll put the effort into rounding it for you if your bothered by possible stepping(whats 'stepping' they may think), but are you willing to pay for the effort ? But how does one describe honestly, all of this to a client without mentioning anything negative.

A negative thought for a client, has them walking I've noticed, even if I'm only trying to nut out a solution for them. But if you rave too much about it, in an attempt to be honest, it gets too much and they'll walk too…..but they'll walk also if they sense your not being honest ……So have to be able to talk little and be honest at the same time about a topic thats more complicated than just a yes/no answer.

Or just give up on all the BS, and just grunt acknowledgements. or just nod at people. Look like you've got a mental problem. Maybe that'll help sales eventually. ' Oh look, its that poor woodworker with the mental problem again….how sad, ....oh dear, we should buy from him to help him out . '

Hello again Jake
Here is a picture to illustrate what I mean by the vee cut on the tennon
DSCF3830.JPG
The outside bit of the vee is made with a suitable gouge and is pretty straightforward.
The inside bit (attached to the leg) is done with a small sharp chisel and is a bit of a P.I.T.A cause its end grain.
The vee cut would only be say 2mm deep.
Another thing I have found is the importance of the joint from the underside. It seems best to have a square shoulder where it meets the seat underside. As opposed to just a tapering meeting. Hopefully this picture tells the story...............................
DSCF3831.JPG
To extrapolate a bit. The turned dowell that goes through the seat base is say 25mm dia. Then there is a square shoulder of say about 5mm,then just a radius turned to the bark edge of the horizontal scrub (the timber the legs have been made from in this case). Also the seat underside has been carved so that it's flush with the shoulder.
You say, "it's a shame time and effort have to be put into something that doesn't affect it's strength! and which bloke began this association?"
Well I don't know about shame, but it's sure more work. More than likely it is sheilas tearing panyhose or fishnet stockings that get off with those steps, which can sometimes actually be pretty sharp. Worse case scenario.....someone lacerates their buttocks on your chair (some people do strange things on chairs) and next thing you have a pack of rabid salivating lawyers hounding you.
By the way, Stepping (think you have coined a new term there) is not limited to hardwoods. Have noticed the same thing with Huon pine. Reckon it's inevitable, so best to take countermeasures in the first place.
All is not doom and gloom with lashings of extra work to keep the knitpickers happy though.
I dunno how much you sell your chairs for but would imagine in excess of 5k each. If not you should be. The bit of extra work to eliminate the Steps shouldn't matter a flying fudge.
Regards
AB

Jake that chair is drop dead gorgeous and just invites one to take a seat!!

Your high gloss finish is perfectly suited to the timber species.

An interesting philosophical discussion with AB ! I like the thoughts you both express, particularly
in regard to the nit pickers union. ( I won't even grant them capitals and the apostrophe!! )

Cheers for the support guys.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

Hello again Jake
Here is a picture to illustrate what I mean by the vee cut on the tennon
DSCF3830.JPG
The outside bit of the vee is made with a suitable gouge and is pretty straightforward.
The inside bit (attached to the leg) is done with a small sharp chisel and is a bit of a P.I.T.A cause its end grain.
The vee cut would only be say 2mm deep.
Another thing I have found is the importance of the joint from the underside. It seems best to have a square shoulder where it meets the seat underside. As opposed to just a tapering meeting. Hopefully this picture tells the story...............................
DSCF3831.JPG
To extrapolate a bit. The turned dowell that goes through the seat base is say 25mm dia. Then there is a square shoulder of say about 5mm,then just a radius turned to the bark edge of the horizontal scrub (the timber the legs have been made from in this case). Also the seat underside has been carved so that it's flush with the shoulder.
You say, "it's a shame time and effort have to be put into something that doesn't affect it's strength! and which bloke began this association?"
Well I don't know about shame, but it's sure more work. More than likely it is sheilas tearing panyhose or fishnet stockings that get off with those steps, which can sometimes actually be pretty sharp. Worse case scenario.....someone lacerates their buttocks on your chair (some people do strange things on chairs) and next thing you have a pack of rabid salivating lawyers hounding you.
By the way, Stepping (think you have coined a new term there) is not limited to hardwoods. Have noticed the same thing with Huon pine. Reckon it's inevitable, so best to take countermeasures in the first place.
All is not doom and gloom with lashings of extra work to keep the knitpickers happy though.

Regards
AB

thanks for the pics. I getcha. I like the way you've done it.

Mines a bit different. Tenons are kilned dried. And there tapered joints. I like the self tightening factor. And I've changed it a bit inside as well. I run a kerf around the inside of the mortise. That way I don't get any air trap problems that stop the joint going home at glue up….and also the hide fills all the kerfs, which when goes off, as I see it, hardens to create a kinda key that locks the joint. uno, hardened glue running along inside mortise kerf into the tenon wedge cut. Another thing I've found that helps resist movement. Seen 'some' pattern between chairs that do and don't have the glue key Hope that makes sense. ...

I don't know whose method is better. Don't care. doesn't matter. I do appreciate showing your pics. Its given me idea ! funnily, nothing to do with jointing either. ta.

The term stepping stuck with me, after talking to a chopping board maker. I never really had a word to describe it till that conversation.

Uno, how chopping board designs, especially in camphor, have kinda evolved with strips attached to the end grains. Going CROSS grain. Screw them in and incorporate handles into the join. It never made sense to me. People who see them selves as PROfeshionul are very quick to point that out. Natural movement wants to rip that apart. I found it interesting that its taken off. There all doing it. I suppose because it really does looks good.

Anyway the maker I was talking to was trying to defend the movement problems he'd had got at this cross grain joint as 'stepping', as if I was bothered by it. Thats where it came from. I don't know where he got the term from.

But uno, they are after all, chopping boards. Exposure to water in the kitchen causes all sorts of problems anyway. not just stepping. So it doesn't matter I think. And camphors very stable anyway. And it looks good. Except that black mouldy blurry stuff that appears in it. I wish I new what caused that. Some seems to have it, and some doesn't. Great if you could identify trees that don't have it, save on milling time. But then apparently I'm imagining it to be a problem.Well I suppose I have to be, since they've probably already stocked tons of camphor with that look in it. I can't help not liking it chopping board guys. sorry. Just don't liiiiiiiiiike it.
As for ripping bum cheeks on stepped tenon ends I don't know if my insurance covers that. How freaky would it be if you read the fine print to discover……..' policy is void if bum cheeks are scratched due to furniture fornication'. sorry. a bit crude.

cheers
Jake

G'Day Jake,
I have followed a number of your Windsor chair related threads and have looked at your website a number of times. Your chairs are gorgeous! I have a bit of a soft spot for Windsors, I made one on a course with Richard Bowes Hare some time back and a full set is on my bucket list. I have to say that I love traditional and contemporary styled chairs. Saying that something can't be any good because it's new, or isn't exactly like something that was made 200 years ago is an intriguing mind set...

Anyway, in the spirit of thanking those that have influenced one's journey - When I was first getting into wood working several years ago I started frequenting this site. There was, and is, a lot opinions and views but the information that you have shared over the years has helped me immensely, and shaped a lot of how I regard woodworking - so thanks, a lot.

Warm regards

Derek

Thanks Derek