Thread: Attitudes to the road toll

Originally Posted by woodPixel

As with all things, punishments are disproportionately punitive to the poor.

Finland has an interesting approach: A sliding scale proportional to income: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

Boo hoo, someone offends enough times to warrant an interlock being fitted to their car gets no sympathy from me.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Additionally, if you have your speedo calibrated for new tyres, as they wear you'll be reading quite a bit faster. If a tyre can wear 5 or 6mm before being changed....

Supposing your tyres when brand new have a diameter of 700mm (mine are 2 weeks old and approximately that) then the circumference of the tyre is 2,199mm. If that wears down 6 mm then the diameter becomes 688mm because it wears 6mm on both ends of the tape when you measure the diameter, giving a circumference of 2,161mm. 2161/2199 * 100 = 98% so the speedo reading changes by 2% over the life of the tyre in that example.

Now for a smaller car with say 500mm new tyre diameter then the new circumference is 1570mm and the worn circumference is 1533 or a 3% change in the speedo reading for a given speed over the life of the tyre. Tyres bigger than 700mm will obviously have a change of less than 2%.

Different profiles of tyres which can be fitted to a vehicle would potentially have a far bigger impact on the speedo reading than whether the tyre is new or worn.

What I like about the speedo on the GPS is that it doesn't care what the tyres look like.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

WRT spedo's, surely the diameter of your tyres changes the speed quite a bit?

e.g. My car comes standard with 60 series tyres, but I always fit 40's. (They sure a harder ride!)... the diameter change on an 18" rim would be substantial.

I think you might find that this is not a legal modification. AFAIR, if the tire/rim combination fitted is not listed on the tire pressure plate, the vehicle can be defected (declared unroadworthy) on the spot.

It would pay to check.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

As with all things, punishments are disproportionately punitive to the poor.

Finland has an interesting approach: A sliding scale proportional to income: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

Well in that case, when the speed camera fine turns up in the post, I can always tell them that my useless dole bludging son-in-law was driving my car at the time. He has next to no income so the fine would be minimal. I could slip him a couple of hundred to take the rap and still be heaps in front.

Cheeers

Doug

Seems like Texas must be a place to use alternative transport other than driving yourself ,something we are considering ( driving) across some of the Southern States soon.
Always concerns me of the traffic coming towards me with folk still cannot get it out of their heads that mobile use, or inattention not only compromises their safety but also other folk trying to get somewhere.

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Seems like Texas must be a place to use alternative transport other than driving yourself ,something we are considering ( driving) across some of the Southern States soon.
Always concerns me of the traffic coming towards me with folk still cannot get it out of their heads that mobile use, or inattention not only compromises their safety but also other folk trying to get somewhere.

You must drive to survive here, i.e. think like a motorcyclist, always be on the lookout, never assume that the other drivers can see you, never assume that others will behave in a logical, reasonable or rational way and stay as far away as possible from other road users.

Another big issue locally is road debris. There's an extremely large informal handyman workforce here due to lax employment laws and consequent minimal job security that has given rise to an army of individual fixer-upper types that load all manner of kit onto any and every available type of four wheeled motorized vehicle, often with no load restraints. Thus there is a huge amount of stuff dropped on the roads. I've seen and sometimes had to swerve to avoid everything from ladders to mattresses. Particularly dangerous are the ladders, I've seen at least several hundred on the highways in my years here. There've been some notable incidents where occupants of vehicles have been killed or seriously injured by construction related road debris but drunks are still the most serious hazard. If at all possible I try to get off of the road by 9 in the evening.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

You must drive to survive here, i.e. think like a motorcyclist, always be on the lookout, never assume that the other drivers can see you, never assume that others will behave in a logical, reasonable or rational way and stay as far away as possible from other road users.

So a lot easier than surviving on the roads in Melbourne then.

I agree the above would not only give the police more respect I challenge any driver to get out and about and not have incidences talk about road rage.

I think I'm going to be hated by many Australians after what I have to say, but what the hell, I can only say it as I've experienced it.

I've been here for 20 years, coming from Europe, and sorry to say a lot of the driving thinking / mentality here is very disappointing.

Way way too many people following blindly instead of THINKING for themselves. And they follow stupid and/or dangerous driving habits without THINKING why they are doing so. Take turning right at a roundabout for instance. In my 20 years I have not noticed anyone indicating correctly to turn right at a roundabout. They do things the lazy way of just leaving their right indicator on for the duration of the turn. This means other drivers waiting to come onto the roundabout think the car is still turning right so they wait, only to find the car turns off at that exit. Where is the changing of the indicator to the left one to tell other drivers they are exiting the roundabout. I've just done my truck test and we are still being taught to correctly indicate at roundabout, yet why does hardly anyone do it.
Now here's where the thinking bit comes in !! Nearly all drivers must have been the victim of this laziness/stupidity, and you would think it would remind them that they themselves should indicate correctly at a roundabout when turning right. Unfortunately that's not what I've observed and it seems the blind follow the blind and keep on doing this dumb act. Now are they dumb or do they simply not care, and just can't be arsed ???

Like I say, many people might hate me after this but I'm only telling what I've seen continuously for 20 years.

Merging !! Holy crap this one gets me and is a clear embarrassing example of how many drivers do not THINK. Once again we are taught how to merge correctly, yet once many people have their license they do not think and they just blindly follow what many dumb drivers do. In their infinite wisdom they somehow think merging at 80 ks into traffic doing 90-100 is the way to do it (cough, gag). They just keep at that dumb speed and don't do any pre-emptive driving to get themselves in a position where there's a gap in the traffic. They don't look over their shoulder but just look in their wing mirror instead. I've talked to many drivers who are under the mistaken impression that the drivers on the freeway are supposed to give way. I've had a few drivers honking at me because I refused to give way (i.e. I'm on the freeway) when I've had over 100m ahead and behind of me, yet the stupid merging driver has it in his limited grey matter that he must do nothing except drive at his fixed set pace in the merging lane, staying right at my side, and the freeway traffic will just get out of the road. Once again where do the huge quantity of drivers that do this get it from. They were not taught this so obviously it's another case of the blind following the blind without THINKING why. Every time I go onto a merging ramp, my first thing is to get up to the same speed as the freeway traffic, then find an open spot to merge into, and position myself to get into it. Problem is most time I can't get above 80 Ks because the driver(s) in front of me have accelerated to 80 then just stay at that speed. It's infuriating when other dumb arses won't allow you to drive safely and correctly.
Notice something else with merging that happens regular as clockwork. The merging cars become a "connected" road train, making zipping onto the freeway traffic very chaotic. I do the opposite and deliberately leave a gap in front of me when I'm in the merging lane. This allows me to accelerate forward or drop back to move into a gap. Of course what happens when you leave a gap like this in front of you ??? You get tailgated because the dumb sod behind you only knows about driving up the of the vehicle in front and if you aren't doing that then you are just holding up traffic. They obviously can't work it out that although you have a gap in front of you, you're actually doing the same speed as the vehicle in front of you.

Look at overtaking. Where I come from, when overtaking, the driver generally pulls out a good distance behind then after overtaking, pulls back in a good distance ahead. The culture here seems to be to stupidly and needlessly drive up close to the vehicle you're overtaking, pull out and overtake, then pull back in way to close. Where did this come from, was it taught, or is it just another case of people not thinking, and blindly following stupid and dangerous driving "techniques". It even happens on empty freeways (a trip to Canberra we did). Several times my wife got worked up when yet another overtaking driver approaching from kms behind us has to come right up our backside before pulling out to overtake.

Tailgaiting - this one has to be the holy grail here. You are not allowed to slow down before a turn. You are not allowed to keep to the speed limit, especially when overtaking and a pratt behind you wants you to go an extra 10 ks or so faster, etc, etc. Tailgating seems to be like a national sport here, and is indicative of the aggressive, confrontational mentality of way to many people here.

Cutting off - another very common dangerous driving act, and one that's cause me to slam the anchors on many times.

Lane hogging on freeways - wow, back home drivers would go nuts at this, it is just completely unacceptable there. Here, I regularly come across drivers sitting in the overtaking lanes and they won't budge. I've came behind them and flashed my lights and even honked my horn because I'm stuck and can't overtake anywhere. Still, they just sit there blocking the lane, it's just pure arrogance.

Lane changing - the infamous move THEN indicate, or at best put the indicator on at the same time as they commence the move to pull in front of you (dangerously close of course, as usual) and cut you off. To add insult to injury you often only see a flash or two of the indicator. Yet another case of the blind following the blind, and doing the same stupid dangerous acts. They obviously don't realise that if they were captured on a cam, their indicating means nothing because it's something like 4 seconds or 4 indicator flashed must have occurred before the vehicle move occurs. The driving rules also state that the indicator must remain on until the move has completed.

Chaotic lack of driving structure - the amount of times I've seen close calls because of the free-for-all lane changing on freeways. You've got a car in the middle lane then the 2 other cars overtake on either side and both of them try to pull over to the middle lane at the same time. Absolutely no structure of stay in the left most lane unless overtaking, and get back in the left most lane immediately after overtaking. And everyone must have seen the general hoon like driving in peak hour, where they act like they're on a race track and are darting through narrow gaps from lane to lane.

Friday after work fever in peak hour - obviously some alcohol and parties to rush home for and kill someone on the way there.

Pushing in to get one single car space further. We all know how many greedy drivers there are, pushing in where 2 lanes merge, and taking advantage of the ruling that if my vehicle is ahead of your vehicle, you must let me in. Of course they raced up and the merging lanes have almost became one, and you had to slam your anchors on to "let" him in. While on that matter, in conversation I've also noticed many drivers think they have right of way when their vehicle is in front of the other, even when the merging lanes are separated by broken lines.

Crook like government that does stuff-all about the real issues that have been happening forever, but will fine for going a tad over the speed limit. Put this and everything else together and you have a great recipe.

Another thing I've noticed is how many Australians love to blame the Asians for the wreckless driving here. My personal observations are the aggressiveness comes from whites of ALL ages. I know because I make it a point to always observe the driver. But perhaps all those whites are immigrants too, as I had one Australian said to me. I will admit that I've noticed a few Asians drive as though they are not aware there are any other drivers on the road, and they'll do something quite dangerous and infuriating, and seem shocked when the victim driver gets angry with them. But they aren't aggressive and confrontational like too many of the whites.

I think we have anger issues here too. I recently came across a thread talking about "angry aggressive Australians". It created a lot of posts and the thing I noticed is how a lot of the respondents were blaming the government for them getting angry. It's almost as though they were justifying their behaviour towards others. That's really going to solve a lot of problems.

Until the large quantity of drivers who drive as mentioned above, start to care, and THINK and change their attitude, I believe we'll continue to have too many accidents. The other problem is way too many people don't seem to notice what I've talked about, and therefore don't perceive it as an issue. Is it because they are born into this chaos and thus don't realise how bad it is. Coming from a country where I consider the driving vastly better and more organised, I see all the above like I see and feel a brick hitting me in the face.

I think we need to admit we have a cultural problem here. Not even being aware of the real problems, not caring, not thinking, following dangerous driving practises blindly, anger, aggression, blaming immigrants. Our government don't care and only want to rip us off so the only solution is we all need to care and voice out about this in general conversation, putting political correctness aside.

Let the attacks begin. Now waiting for typical reply of, "F-off back to your own country", etc.

Originally Posted by beefy

a lot of the driving thinking / mentality here is very disappointing.

Originally Posted by beefy

I've came behind them and flashed my lights and even honked my horn because I'm stuck and can't overtake anywhere. Still, they just sit there blocking the lane, it's just pure arrogance.

Originally Posted by beefy

I think we have anger issues here too. I recently came across a thread talking about "angry aggressive Australians".

[/QUOTE]

enough said.

Wow Beefy, if you think Australians are aggressive you never want to drive in Texas as you'd likely blow a couple of o-rings.

Most of the above post (beefy) should be termed "common sense", but unfortunately that phrase became an oxymoron a few years ago, and has fallen into disuse.

Look, since many drivers here can't even KEEP LEFT on the freeway, there's no chance of changing some of the more ridiculous habits (merging, roundabouts, tailgating, etc.). Presumably they are either (a) too stupid to understand simple instructions posted on huge signposts, or (b) so ignorant that they think the rules only apply to other people, and not to themselves. These people are indeed "special", just not in a good way.....

I'll add another one which is prevalent in our area; people turning right off a main road onto a side road, who just stop in the middle of their lane until a gap appears in oncoming traffic. This causes traffic to bank up behind them, whereas if they had positioned their car as far to the right of their lane as possible, other traffic would have been able to continue past them on the left. In our area we have the additional problem that drivers won't attempt to drive through a gap unless it is at least twice the width of their own car....

Oh, I nearly forgot about "duelling trucks" on the freeway, i.e. one truck travelling at 110.01 km/h trying to pass another truck doing 110.00 km/h. This can completely block a 2 lane freeway for many, many kilometers.

Originally Posted by beefy

Look at overtaking. Where I come from, when overtaking, the driver generally pulls out a good distance behind then after overtaking, pulls back in a good distance ahead. The culture here seems to be to stupidly and needlessly drive up close to the vehicle you're overtaking, pull out and overtake, then pull back in way to close. Where did this come from, was it taught, or is it just another case of people not thinking, and blindly following stupid and dangerous driving "techniques".

Ever see those signs on the highways that say "Keep Left Unless Overtaking"? That's why they don't pull out until the last minute and then cut in a couple of metres in front of you. Its the only law or sign that they obey to the letter and it was not meant to be read that way.

Originally Posted by beefy

Chaotic lack of driving structure - the amount of times I've seen close calls because of the free-for-all lane changing on freeways. You've got a car in the middle lane then the 2 other cars overtake on either side and both of them try to pull over to the middle lane at the same time. Absolutely no structure of stay in the left most lane unless overtaking and get back in the left most lane immediately after overtaking. And everyone must have seen the general hoon like driving in peak hour, where they act like they're on a race track and are darting through narrow gaps from lane to lane.

So - which way do you want it?

Beefy, I agree with most of what you said.

CHeers

Doug

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

As a Sydney driver, coming here was simply the most incredible experience I've ever had.

It's another world, entirely.