Thread: Attitudes to the road toll

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

As a Sydney driver, coming here was simply the most incredible experience I've ever had.

It's another world, entirely.

I don't think that's possible. All gaskets were blown a long time ago LOL.

You know what, it's very interesting about Sydney vs Melbourne as far as aggressiveness goes. My first few years were in Sydney and I never noticed the level of aggressiveness there that I did when I came to Melbourne. While in Sydney I knew a guy from Melbourne and he called Melbourne the land of the fast drivers. I never knew what he meant until I arrived here. Ha ha, "fast" is not the word I'd use to describe it. My first day on the roads here and I was in shock at the way I was getting cut off all the time.

Funny thing is when Melbournians go to Sydney, they think Sydney is bad. Maybe things have got worse there, don't know. I was an import without bias to either city, yet I've found Melbourne is atrocious and Sydney wasn't as bad by far. Maybe Sydney drivers have been used to a more congested and less organised/planned (zillions of one-ways, as the crow fly roads, etc) roads for a long time, and they've learned to just deal with it and not go crazy. I remember being in Sydney at 7.00 pm after work, stuck at a traffic light for 15 mins. Coming to Melbourne and the roads were much less congested yet so many drivers were incredibly aggressive.

Originally Posted by beefy

I don't think that's possible. All gaskets were blown a long time ago LOL.

You know what, it's very interesting about Sydney vs Melbourne as far as aggressiveness goes. My first few years were in Sydney and I never noticed the level of aggressiveness there that I did when I came to Melbourne.

I have been in Melbourne for over eight years now. When I drive outside of Melbourne - even to the close-by cities like Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo, I have to keep reminding myself not to drive so aggressively. You need to drive aggressivley in Melbourne or you won't stand a chance.

Sydney is not so bad. Brisbane is casual and relaxed like a big country town by comparison to Melbourne. Adelaide is probably worse than Sydney but no where near as bad as Melbourne. I have driven in some of the largest cities in Asia and it is only in Melbourne that I feel as if I am taking my life into my own hands just by getting behind the wheel.

Cheers

Doug

Whilst I agree with Beefy about some driver attitudes, especially tailgating, I disagree with others.

In regard to freeway on ramps, the ones in my area are signposted as 80 k hence you must merge at that speed until you are on the freeway when it becomes 100 k. Don't blame drivers for obeying the law blame the law.

Lane hogging on freeways is another point, each lane is legally a separate road, so you don't need and often are not able to drive on the left lanes. Overtaking lanes are usually only on highways and only if so signposted.

Indicating on roundabouts is fine if it is a decent roundabout but with most roundabouts in the suburbs being only 1 or 2 metres in diameter I leave the indicator on. I fail to see any problems with that as only one car can be on such roundabouts at any time.

Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Whilst I agree with Beefy about some driver attitudes, especially tailgating, I disagree with others.

In regard to freeway on ramps, the ones in my area are signposted as 80 k hence you must merge at that speed until you are on the freeway when it becomes 100 k. Don't blame drivers for obeying the law blame the law.

Lane hogging on freeways is another point, each lane is legally a separate road, so you don't need and often are not able to drive on the left lanes. Overtaking lanes are usually only on highways and only if so signposted.

Indicating on roundabouts is fine if it is a decent roundabout but with most roundabouts in the suburbs being only 1 or 2 metres in diameter I leave the indicator on. I fail to see any problems with that as only one car can be on such roundabouts at any time.

Peter.

Fair enough, but you seem to be looking for the exceptions rather than the general stuff.

I don't expect people to break the law if the merging speed states a max of 80, and haven't said they should so you can't disagree with a statement I haven't made. I completely agree with you that the law needs changing in those cases. Forcing a merging speed of 80 onto a road with a speed limit of 100 is just typical of the stupidity we can get from our government. It's also in disagreement with the Victorian Road Rules book which tells you to accelerate to the same speed as the traffic you'll be merging with.

Maybe I'm using the wrong words and mean highway when I said freeway. I associate the word freeway with motorway, highway, etc so apologises if I'm using incorrect terms. But in general I'm talking about highways where we are supposed to keep left unless overtaking.

Fair call on tiny little roundabouts in built up housing areas, etc, but I'm talking about roundabouts in general which are normally bigger than that and leave plenty time/distance to change indicators and thus inform other road users. Like I say I have NEVER noticed anyone changing their indicator from right to left during a right turn to signal their intention that they will be leaving the roundabout at the next exit.

For everything I've said, if you look hard enough you'll easily be able to find exceptions to counteract what I've said. But generally speaking I hold to what I've said.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

As a Sydney driver, coming here was simply the most incredible experience I've ever had.

It's another world, entirely.

Is Chatswood a suburb of Canberra?

Most people treat suburban roundabouts as normal intersections. I'll only indicate left to exit from freeway roundabouts or ones with weird street angles

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Most people treat suburban roundabouts as normal intersections. I'll only indicate left to exit from freeway roundabouts or ones with weird street angles

Freeway roundabouts? They must all be in the eastern suburbs. Another good reason not to cross the bridge.

Originally Posted by doug3030

Freeway roundabouts? They must all be in the eastern suburbs. Another good reason not to cross the bridge.

Highway. My bad...

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

Is Chatswood a suburb of Canberra?

Chatswood is an exception. There, the incompetence is catastrophic. I've seen people run over, people walk directly in front of cars, cars going into shop windows and even a couple of fights. I used to live in Neutral Bay and Mosman for 20 years and visited most weekends for shopping.

One thing with Sydney is, although people are fast and its very busy, but so is everyone. When you need to pull into the traffic from an off-street you are let in (NOT Canberra), if you need to merge you zipper together (NOT Canberra) and if you make a mistake you can quickly rectify without agro (NOT Canberra). Other abominable behaviours here are: people actively accelerate if you indicate to move into their lane to deliberately block you off; they utterly refuse to cooperate at on-ramps (they accelerate to match your velocity to force you behind them), they indicate WHEN they turn or move lanes (not before) and go through blatantly red lights at literally every intersection (I absolutely kid you not).

Here, if you are in a small car you are actively hassled. I see it first hand... I drive my black HSV and no one gives me stick, if I drive my MIL's little blue Mazda they are up my butt , pushing in and won't give way.

Sydney was rushed, but nobody was belligerent. There may have been rudeness borne of frustration, but in Canberra the roads are so empty, big and unused there is zero excuse for their behaviour other than being arseholes.

In response to an earlier post re vehicle Speedos not being allowed to be 100% accurate. That is not the case. Speedos are covered by ADR 18/03 which changed in July 2007 on all model vehicles and July 2006 on all new model vehicles.

It basically states that a vehicle cannot travel at a greater speed than indicated on the Speedo. The Speedo may show a speed greater than that being travelled by no more than 10% + 4Km/hr.
There is nothing in the rules to say it can’t be 100% accurate.

Previously an accuracy of +- 10% was required at speeds above 40km/hr.

The ADR also spells out tyre sizes, air pressure etc etc.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

people actively accelerate if you indicate to move into their lane to deliberately block you off

Which is why they have learned to:

Originally Posted by woodPixel

they indicate WHEN they turn or move lanes (not before)

Makes sense to me. I learned that the first week in Melbourne.

Red light running was not so bad in Canberra last time I was there (July) but when I was living there in the 1990's if I stopped at a red light people used to change lanes behind me to go through the red light.

How many of us acquaint ourselves with the driving regulations when we drive interstate?I guess like a lot of us I have'nt done so but merely stick to what I would deem to be as courteous as possible not always easy to do when you live in a State where all the bad habits on the road are evident.
Have not driven in central Melbourne with the requirement to pull over to the left to make a right hand turn ,but that is one that I am aware of as my sister drove us through the city there.
I do agree with the comments above regarding bad drivers ,like most of us we have seen it very evident.Intolerance & bad manners, a need to be somewhere yesterday without timely planning is given over to ignorance of any other road user once some personas hop behind a steering wheel of a vehicle.

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Have not driven in central Melbourne with the requirement to pull over to the left to make a right hand turn ,but that is one that I am aware of as my sister drove us through the city there.

Our famous hook turns, whilst they scare of interstaters they make absolute sense to us. It is to stop trams being held up by drivers wanting to turn right in front of trams.

There are quite a number of different road laws between Victoria and other states and it is always wise to acquaint yourself with other states road laws.

Peter

We've recently got ourselves a cute little 1500cc car for fuel economy and we're loving the hugely reduced petrol costs. Our Territory hardly gets used now. Got to say I've also noticed the cowardly acts of drivers tailgating more when I'm in this little car vs the Territory. We went to the Great Ocean Road a few days ago and got tailgates a lot around the suburbs near the Ferry terminal. I committed the big sin of travelling at the speed limit LOL. I deal with these jerks by slowing down at least 10 Ks and making it very obvious I'm looking at them in my mirror. Anyway the road rules book does say that when tailgated you should slow down for safety. Lots of times they then back off once its clicked with them what I'm doing. Little car with angry scowling male driver.

I recommend using reverse psychology when merging onto a packed crawling highway in peak hour. I've found when you make it obvious you are waiting for the kindness of another driver to let you in, someone normally does. Their's often a few selfish dicks that won't help you but in the end someone sees you are making zero attempt to push in and they open up a gap for you. I wind my window down afterwards and gesture a thanks. If only we could gravitate to this a little more.

It doesn't seem to work so good with overtaking though. When I lived in Singapore some drivers had this really dumb mentality called "Kiasu". If a driver overtook you, or pulled in front of you, etc, etc, they had "won". Never thought I'd see such stupidity in a supposedly civilised western country. There's countless times I've pulled out to overtake a driver doing say 90-95 Ks. As I overtake them I notice I'm not getting anywhere yet I'm at 100. I go up to 105 and still I'm not gaining. So up to 110 and I manage to get past them. Finally I pull back in the lane and reduce speed to 100. Now they start dropping behind me so obviously they sped up when I started to overtake and only reduce speed afterwards once they've enjoyed screwing me for no reason. So this ridiculous Kiasu is alive and strong here. I really don't understand what the f*&k is wrong with a lot of people. We live in a wonderful country and yet so many are angry and confrontational and wanting to screw each other for the sake of it.

Then our wonderful government puts that infuriating advert on TV, showing a driver giving abuse to another driver, while his kid is sitting in the back seat observing it all. Problem is a lot of the time the driver giving the abuse is the victim, and he's venting off because of the relentless crap that gets thrown at him every day. I'm one of those frustrated drivers. It probably makes the good drivers spit the dummy when our government basically tells us to stay calm and civil while Mr Hoon repeatedly rams us up the bum bum. Wonderful solution using taxpayers money for ads that say, "don't be like that", instead of tackling the real problem. The police force could have plain cars all over the place collecting fines for generally bad/aggressive driving. I'm sure it would pay for the costs. If drivers knew these cops were out doing this I reckon we'd see a big difference in a relatively short time.