Thread: Future of the Australian Electricity Market

Something I did get from that article is that there may be room for a couple of different types of battery in a given vehicle. One that is quick to recharge, but low on other qualities, and another for long driving. Perhaps there's even room to remove one battery suite for short commutes and replace it for longer journeys. *At least until the "ultimate" battery is invented, which may be a little while yet.

Another thing that occurred to me wrt to small planes is that 3 : 1 ratio they were talking about for take off : cruising. Surely a ground based battery (of whatever type is appropriate) could be employed to fling the planes into the air in the same way Navy Jets are flung off Aircraft Carriers. (you know, big hook, rubber bands, and scooped take-off pads)

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Another thing that occurred to me wrt to small planes is that 3 : 1 ratio they were talking about for take off : cruising. Surely a ground based battery (of whatever type is appropriate) could be employed to fling the planes into the air in the same way Navy Jets are flung off Aircraft Carriers. (you know, big hook, rubber bands, and scooped take-off pads)

FF

Might well be possible, but I am not sure how the average passenger would cope. My impression is that most people go into freak out mode with a spot of turbulence. Imagine how they woul go being propelled into the air instead of eased.



Regards
Paul

On the subject of development, have a look at this:

Gmail

Looks pretty flashy, but it is light on detail again where it counts as opposed to glossy blurb. What does it cost? Doesn't look remotely cheap with solar tracking, high wind safety detection and fold away sophistication. It doesn't explain how it provides power on cloudy days and at night.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Might well be possible, but I am not sure how the average passenger would cope. My impression is that most people go into freak out mode with a spot of turbulence. Imagine how they woul go being propelled into the air instead of eased.

Well it doesn't have to be flung with the urgency of a fighter jet off a carrier – that WOULD be a bit much!

You just reminded me of a flight I took from Melbourne-Sydney many years ago during (one of) the pilot's strikes. Probably Ansett. The government of the day were using RAAF planes to fill the gap, but also some chartered planes and crews from a US airline (South West?).

I swear the US pilot must have flown from carriers before going into commercial aviation. He stood on the brakes while winding the engines right up, then off the brakes to send us rocketing down the runway - prompting some slightly alarmed faces amongst the generally conservative local flying clientele. The landing gear came up almost as soon as the wheels were off the ground, and then he cranked it into the steepest climb out I've ever experienced. Sitting back in the seat like an astronaut, I wasn't sure whether we were going to Sydney or the moon.....

Some months later I found myself in an office elevator somewhere in the CBD with the head of the pilots union (in uniform) who had stirred up the strike - I recognised him from TV - who by then was out of a job along with a large number of other pilots (that the airlines wanted to downsize anyway). I couldn't resist saying "That went well, didn't it?" as he got out of the elevator

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

... Another thing that occurred to me wrt to small planes is that 3 : 1 ratio they were talking about for take off : cruising. ...

There is some very informed information about this on the Airbus website.
https://www.airbus.com/en/innovation...lectric-flight

Ther time line, simplified, is basically:

1. In 2010, tiny single seater electric with two ducted fan motors on the rear fusilage. It looks like a mini Lear jet.
2. Then they converted it to a two seater. It had a top speed of 150 knots and a range of 100 miles at 100 knots.
3. Then they took out most of the batteries and put a conventional moter powering a battery charger in the fusilage. This extended the range to 1,000 miles. Apparently 1 kg aviation fuel holds the same energy as 15-20 kgs Li-Ion batteries.
4. Plane would take off almost silently on batteries, then they would start the IC motor, less than half the size needed for take off. They only needed 20 minutes of battery power for take off and landing (in case they had to do a go around).
5. Planes are very inefficient taxiing on the ground, so they added an electric motor to the front wheel. This may make it to full size airbusses.
6. Then, in conjunction with Rolls Royce, they replaced one motor on a BAE146 (like Ansett used to use) with an electric motor. It flew successfully.
7. Then, in conjunction with Rolls Royce, they did a feasibility study to convert an Airbus 380, the real big one, to fully electric power. They concluded there was a very limitted maket for A380's with only a 1,000 km range.
8. Airbus is now on a watching brief pending the next generation of batteries. Weight is still the big issue.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Well it doesn't have to be flung with the urgency of a fighter jet off a carrier – that WOULD be a bit much!

I dont know, I'd pay a bit more for such an extra

I've certainly had my fair share of spooky landings. One flight into Melbourne during a typhoon had the plane "landing" 45 deg to the runway It was pretty spectacular. Much to everyones enjoyment the pilot did describe the up-coming fun

FF, I also had the same thoughts as you about 3:1 take offs. Considering they are talking about commercial planes, its seems to me they could use a regular engine for takeoff only, or use a booster battery pack that jettisons.


I saw a thing where they do this "kind" of thing in Rwanda, the batteries plug in in sockets - its really amazing:

Drones Have Transformed Blood Delivery in Rwanda | WIRED

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I saw a thing where they do this "kind" of thing in Rwanda, the batteries plug in in sockets - its really amazing:

Drones Have Transformed Blood Delivery in Rwanda | WIRED

Fascinating! I doubt you'd sign up for 1-100kph in 0.3 seconds though. The PHEV Ferrari Supercar does it in 2.5 seconds, and that'd be scary enough.

We had an extended power cut yesterday well into the evening due to high winds dropping trees onto powerlines. First time I've had the opportunity to try the V2L feature of my Atto 3 EV - plug the supplied lead into the car charging port, run extension lead into house, voila. It can supply up to 2kW @240V, so enough to run TV, a few lamps, fridge, etc. Made me wish I had a way to isolate house supply from the mains to simplify cabling. With a fully charged 60kWh battery in the car, we could easily go a week without mains power.

You can see how close we are to V2G; using the car battery for permanent home storage battery.

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

You can see how close we are to V2G; using the car battery for permanent home storage battery.

Yair, you'd be a mug to buy a Tesla house battery, or any other kind of house battery.

Apparently people are already ratting the battery packs out of written off EVs (of all brands) to use as very high capacity house batteries. BYD state that the lithium iron phosphate battery (LiFePO 4 battery) in Atto 3 is designed to be shoehorned into an enclosure for use as a house battery when it has reached end of life for the car (maybe degraded to 80% of original capacity - but that's still 50kWh for home use vs the 14kWh of Tesla wall battery). Trouble is the BYD Blade battery is expected to last for over 1 million km in the car, so I may not be around to see that !! Also, at the current (sic) rate of battery chemistry development, it's pretty safe to say that any existing technology will be obsolete in a few years anyway.

Best get driving then.

Ok, so I have a question about batteries:
A Tesla Powerwall 2 is $14,000 installed, and they are 13.5kWh or 13,500Wh, so about 1$ per Wh.
Mr B's Atto 3 has a 60kWh battery and the whole bloody car only costs $48,000+ (and the + doesn't affect the battery size).
Let's say it costs $20,000 to replace the battery in the car. That's about 33c per Wh to purchase a battery that goes into a difficult shape of a vehicle, not a nice neat rectangular box.

W.T.F?

That's useful Chris. Do I want to give China my money or Elon Musk? That's actually a tough choice.

However, it doesn't address 33c/Wh vs $1/Wh. He talks about "if you have enough money you can have 57.9kWh of BYD batteries" but Mr B already has that...AND he can drive them around.