Thread: Honey NOT so sweet

Yep, I certainly wouldn't be knowingly eating any food sourced from China. Have been dealing with my freight forwarder recently concerning a failed purchase from China. After 6 months dealing with the seller the products were unable to be delivered because the plating factory was closed down due to pollution concerns. One message my freight forwarder sent me contained the following information:

"We did see this happening with about 3 of our customers having very similar issues out of China with their suppliers where their factories were shut down due to pollution and environmental crackdowns by the Chinese Government. Safety officials were moving from province to province closing down factories as well as electricity and gas as they inspect these factories for meeting emission requirements. This has resulted in late or missed orders, increased costs and ultimately higher prices to end customers (once goods have finally been shipped and imported).

I think the last statistic I heard was that almost 40 percent of factories in China had been shut down at some point in order for the inspection to take place and over 80,000 factories had been hit with fines and criminal offenses as a result of their emissions.

China’s crackdown on polluting factories is / was intended to have an end result in cleaner air and a whole host of health benefits however, there are certainly critics that have pointed out the potential decline in China’s industrial sector and decrease in purchasing / shipping trade.

To be honest, we have had a few customers who have recently sold off their business because the shipping rates have increased so much and it’s all just got a bit much for them, business has been tough for the past 2 years for everyone."

So stay well away from any food products sourced from China. No wonder they're frantic for our milk powder.

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Read an article regarding high lead levels and other contaminants in honey from the Broken Hill region
The cause has been identified coming from local lead mines apparently
Honey from various parts of Sydney also revealed levels of contaminants

I read that article (and also know the lead researcher) and the article is being misquoted all over the place.
Even the ABC website published contradictory info.
What they found was the Bees bodies had the high levels of lead but there's no problem with the levels of lead in the honey itself.
The bees naturally filter the lead out of the honey they make.

The vast majority of the lead pollution in Aus cities is between 50 and 100 years old, originating from the use of such things as leaded paint and leaded petrol.
It has formed an ~300 mm layer of lead all over major metropolitan areas and is a time bomb waiting to be released if too much acid rain is allowed to fall.
This will drive the lead into the water catchment areas and pollute our ground water supplies.

Current regs regarding lead use are pretty good but of course there could always be improvements.

Bob I read that the level of lead in the honey from Broken Hill was 10 times the level of that found in honey sourced from the Sydney area
So what's the safe level then (MRL)? The bees clearly aren't filtering ALL the lead
And how will the poor bee fare after long and continued exposure to lead...will it affect fertility etc
And what about the lead laden pollen...where does that end up...bees aren't the only ones that interact with pollen...HUMANS eat it
As do a variety of critters
Lead is toxic stuff as we all know...look at Mt Isa
Fact is these pollutants are finding their way into the food chain and i find that totally unacceptable...period!
A ticking time bomb alright...and it will into the not too distant future have profound repercussions upon our health
Only one earth Bob...we need to take much greater care with it...a point no one can argue.
Sorry to say but successive generations have polluted and hacked the Australian environment with little conscience
Look at recent decision by Bunnings to no longer shelve a YATES product that apparently was having adverse affects on bees
Some 'experts' believe that this product is highly dangerous(systemic pesticide) while other 'experts' say it's safe
So which 'expert' is right then?...MM

Originally Posted by aldav

Yep, I certainly wouldn't be knowingly eating any food sourced from China. Have been dealing with my freight forwarder recently concerning a failed purchase from China. After 6 months dealing with the seller the products were unable to be delivered because the plating factory was closed down due to pollution concerns. One message my freight forwarder sent me contained the following information:

"We did see this happening with about 3 of our customers having very similar issues out of China with their suppliers where their factories were shut down due to pollution and environmental crackdowns by the Chinese Government. Safety officials were moving from province to province closing down factories as well as electricity and gas as they inspect these factories for meeting emission requirements. This has resulted in late or missed orders, increased costs and ultimately higher prices to end customers (once goods have finally been shipped and imported).

I think the last statistic I heard was that almost 40 percent of factories in China had been shut down at some point in order for the inspection to take place and over 80,000 factories had been hit with fines and criminal offenses as a result of their emissions.

China’s crackdown on polluting factories is / was intended to have an end result in cleaner air and a whole host of health benefits however, there are certainly critics that have pointed out the potential decline in China’s industrial sector and decrease in purchasing / shipping trade.

To be honest, we have had a few customers who have recently sold off their business because the shipping rates have increased so much and it’s all just got a bit much for them, business has been tough for the past 2 years for everyone."

So stay well away from any food products sourced from China. No wonder they're frantic for our milk powder.

Dave i have heard reports from local bee keepers that some honey coming out from China is nothing but sugar and water with added emulsifiers...MM

300mm layer of lead all over metropolitan areas?

Current global regulations regarding Neonicotonoids NOT so good however
European Union though are looking closely at limiting/banning their use of this 'systemic chemical'
This stuff is wiping out vast colonies of bees worldwide...very strong body of evidence to support the claim too
And everything that crawls,walks and swims
Neonicotonoids are the most widely used Agrochemicals in the world b.t.w...MM

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Bob I read that the level of lead in the honey from Broken Hill was 10 times the level of that found in honey sourced from the Sydney area
So what's the safe level then (MRL)? The bees clearly aren't filtering ALL the lead
And how will the poor bee fare after long and continued exposure to lead...will it affect fertility etc

Both the Broken Hill and Sydney lead levels in Honey are below the recommended levels for lead in foods.
You need to remember that the bees in Broken hill have been exposed to lead for more than a 100 years.
Given the short life span of bees and multiple generations that includes you'd thing any long term effects would have shown up by now.
There may well be effects but they are probably just too small to detect.

The article does not say where the lead comes from - they assumed that it came direct from the bees but this might not be so.
Some lead might come from the honey processing - see below

I'm not saying lead should not be very carefully monitored and studied but lets put things into perspective and not get overly concerned about media hyped stories.

Don't get me wrong - I studied environments lead for decades and know very much what it can do - I was involved in a complex study of lead in wine and could go all technical on this but I won't do that here.
The bee story is interesting but it does not represent a major problem lead source compared to other sources - it's really a remarkable demonstration of how well nature is protecting us rather than WOW watch out for the lead in honey..
It's not like people eat bucket loads of honey anyway and they would get loads more lead from the dust they breath in from day to day from sitting in the back yard of a suburban block while having a beer.
Most folks don't realise that ALL processed food and drink has lead in it - very little of it is from the food itself and most of it comes from urban dust that gets into processed food via the processing chain.
Fruit juice has way more lead in it than raw fruit.
I can remember the exact numbers but pineapple juice was one we tested and fresh pineapple had about 100 times lower lead concentration in it than what was in a carton of juice.
Every food we tested showed this effect.
Beer is a processed food and will almost certainly have lead in it.
The closer the processing is done to older high density urban areas or mine sites the more lead it will have.
The difference is quite distinct with wine produced and bottled in Margaret River wine having much less less lead in it than the wine produced and bottled in the Swan Valley.

And what about the lead laden pollen...where does that end up...bees aren't the only ones that interact with pollen...HUMANS eat it

As it turns out I was involved in a study of this as well.
Because the pollen is exposed to air, lead in the air can end up in the seeds of fruits but like the bees, plants are able to reject much of the lead so the amount that ends up in seeds is small.
We tested grapes and found the concentration of lead in grape seeds was higher than the juice but less than the skin of course the skin gets exposed to the air and hence dust.
But even the lead on the skins amount did not explain the larger amount of lead observed the final wine.
That came from the processing, with dust carrying lead settling out of air inside fermenting and holding tanks, bottling gear etc.

Originally Posted by Lappa

300mm layer of lead all over metropolitan areas?

Whoops, 300 mm layer of lead "contaminated soils" all over metropolitan areas

Originally Posted by BobL

It's not like people eat bucket loads of honey anyway and they would get loads more lead from the dust they breath in from day to day from sitting in the back yard of a suburban block while having a beer.

.

Kids have to eat more food per unit body weight than adults hence likely to consume more honey than adults...body weight a critical factor...lead as you well know affects the developing bodies and brains of children
So what is a safe MRL for pb in food Bob? With lead there isn't one except zero.
In Europe if honey is sold as a natural product it is not allowed to contain any contaminants!
Fact is if I am purchasing Honey at the shop I DON'T want it laced with lead...simple.
And I don't want pesticides/antibiotics in it either...MM

Worth mentioning that lead was not the only contaminant found in the Honey tested from Broken Hill and Sydney
Other heavy metals were detected also
And the researchers are clueless as to whether accumulated lead in the bodies of bees is detrimental to their health
They need to do more research apparently ...MM

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Kids have to eat more food per unit body weight than adults hence likely to consume more honey than adults...body weight a critical factor too...lead as you well know affects the developing bodies and brains of children
So what is a safe MRL for pb in food Bob? With lead there isn't one except zero.

There are various standards for lead so which one do you want?
Some EU Values are here EU Updates Maximum Levels For Lead In Certain Foodstuffs | SGS
Their honey limit is 0.1 mg/kg = 0.1 ug/g which is 100 ng/g.

Data for other EU toxin levels available here
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...150521&from=EN

The US FDA has set an "action level" of 0.5 μg/dL for lead in in food products intended for use by infants and children
Action means a "goal" rather than an enforceable level.

Some FDA standards specific to honey are here
FDA standards for honey | NatuReplica
I see that it has lead set at 50 ppb

In Europe if honey is sold as a natural product it is not allowed to contain any contaminants!

Sorry but this is bollocks it will always have some lead in it - it simply means they cannot measure the lead concentrations properly - our lab demonstrated this time and time again since teh 1980's.
The process of measuring requires the assessment of something called the "background".
The Europeans had such a high lead background that when they subtract it they got NEGATIVE values which they call zero.
Same as the Europeans reporting ZERO lead in Antarctic ice for years before they realised they had a contamination problem from environmental lead form leaded paint/ex-petrol lead etc
Lead in old Antarctic ice cores is present at the sub ppt )<0.000001 ug/g level. But our lab showed that it clearly contains lead from various volcanoes that spray it around the world, from the romans and greek who smelted lead some 200 years ago. Until our lab developed the techniques to remove the lead from out lab water it was impossible to do these measurements. The lead from Broken Hill stood out like dogs testicles. Once they started smelting it took only months for BH lead to reach Antartica. It also has a 60 year layer of ice contaminated with lead from leaded petrol.

Fact is if I am purchasing Honey at the shop I DON'T want it laced with lead...simple.

Every food you eat will have lead in it.
If you want to minimise lead injection;
a) Buy fresh food - nothing processed or in a bottle or can (that includes beer)
b) carefully wash all food before use
c) Minimize exposure of food to air/dust.
For honey buy it from the country side rather than from a city or regional based processing facility.

I found the results of the work our lab did on the lead in pineapple 28 years ago.
Determination of lead in fresh and canned pineapple by isotope dilution mass spectrometry and isotope systematics - ScienceDirect
My contribution was I built and maintained the ultraclean lab where this work was done

Soldered cans of pineapple contained 135 ng/g of lead - it's soldered what else would you expect?
BUT
The pineapple welded passivated can contained 54 ng/g of lead
Fresh pineapple contained 0.9 ng/g of lead.

So the processing added 53.1 ng/g ,ie the vast majority of the lead.

Typical EU recommended lead values for foods are between 50 and 100 ng/g and it nearly all comes from processing.
There has been some effort to reduce the Pb levels to 30 ug/g but they still haven't go there yet.

Originally Posted by BobL

b) carefully wash all food before use
.

Wash with soap (Castile etc.), avoid detergent if you can. Washing with soap removes a lot of the exterior pesticide residue from produce. I say soap because I suspect some issues with detergents, haven't shown it yet but I have strong reasons to believe that there's some problems with them.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Wash with soap (Castile etc.), avoid detergent if you can. Washing with soap removes a lot of the exterior pesticide residue from produce. I say soap because I suspect some issues with detergents, haven't shown it yet but I have strong reasons to believe that there's some problems with them.

Plain water will get most of the dust off which is where the lead mainly will be but soap will also be needed to remove the pesticides. I've also heard that neat vinegar sprayed on so that it forms a complete layer and then left for a while and then rinsed off will help.