Thread: Was this illegal or just plain disgraceful?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

What do you call a pedestrian who looks both ways in a one-way street?

French. Well they don't take any notice of where they park, or should I say abandon, their cars.

A while back there was a fascinating programme of French TV about a tow-away truck in Paris. All he did all night was to go to a certain corner where the pavement was a fair bit wider than the rest. He would put a car on his wagon and take it to the pound. Drive back and pick up the next on, etc. There was a tow-away sign in clear site and they made a fortune from that one corner.

Motorcyclists have threir own law here too. They don't have to stick to any speed limits. Solid white lines are for cars, etc. and when they are unhappy with anyone they form large, slow moving, road blocking the road and have an escort of police bikes to make sure they get their own way. The big downer for them is that although they number about 5% or so of the traffic they have about 20% of the accidents

I'd say cautious

I nearly got hit in Castlereagh St in Sydney one day by some jerk reversing up the street

Originally Posted by corbs

Why not? You can get very good helmets for half the price of the fine which is a fraction of what your heads worth.

Yeah you can get a good helmet for $20. After I pay my rent each fortnight I have about $140 left for all expenses, food, fuel, power, net (essential for job seeking) and everything else.
So yeah after getting pinched I went and bought a helmet - and my shopping for that fortnight included a sh*tload of $1 bread from Woolies because I couldnt afford much else.
The issue I have, is that I was written up by a cop who openly admitted that were I a child I would receive three warnings before the fine - this was blatant revenue raising.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I used to work with a bloke who owned a powerful motorcycle. It was a 1000cc Laverda Jota. In it's time (mid to late seventies) it was as fast as they got. Today a good 250 would probably show it a clean pair of heels.

He told me that he would often get sprung travelling too fast in NSW and if he was close to the ACT he would just open up the throttle and race across the border as the NSW police in those days had no jurisdiction there.

The police cars of the day had no hope of catching him.

Regards
Paul

Hot 1970's moterbikes Benelli 750 - 6 cylinder
750 Triple Kawasaki & 350 Triple Kawasaki
even a very well turned Honda 750 Four or a 750 Suzuki Water Bucket or Katana

Originally Posted by Jonzjob

French. Well they don't take any notice of where they park, or should I say abandon, their cars.

Motorcyclists have threir own law here too. They don't have to stick to any speed limits. Solid white lines are for cars, etc. and when they are unhappy with anyone they form large, slow moving, road blocking the road and have an escort of police bikes to make sure they get their own way. The big downer for them is that although they number about 5% or so of the traffic they have about 20% of the accidents

The reason motorcyclists have more accidents than cars is because of asshole drivers who either don't see us because they have their head up their ####, ipod, or newspaper (and yeah when I worked at Camera section in WA I saw a woman doing 78/60 while reading a newspaper, this particular shot taken by the best operator in the section and I could read the masthead of the paper) or, they see us and don't give a ####, or they see us and deliberately use size and the fact that we're unprotected to intimidate us.
I was doing 105 on the Bruce Hwy south bound from the Bribie island road and had a rigid tipper literally 200mm off my back wheel - I still have his rego and when I see him there'll be an unpleasant (for him) conversation.
Motorcyclist block the road - which dream or movie did you see that in, yeah the bikies get an escort but any cop will tell you that that's for the protection of the general rather than the bikies benefit, and before providing that escort the cops go in mob handed to RBT, drug test, and do licence and roadworthiness checks on ever bike and rider.
Truckies get a police escort when they do xmas charity runs and so do hot rodders.

It's been scientifically proven that motorcycles create less congestion and less polution.
Motorcycles are also better trained and tested to a higher standard than car drivers - the sum total of my tests for C and HC licences was less than 40 minutes. I did a 5 hour assessment last year for my restricted bike licence and will do another 5 hours in a few weeks for my open licence.
We also pay more in rego in taxes since most of us have both car and bike, and our bikes are better maintained since a mechanical issue (such as sudden tyre deflation) could lead to an accident.

Originally Posted by smidsy

The issue I have, is that I was written up by a cop who openly admitted that were I a child I would receive three warnings before the fine - this was blatant revenue raising.

That would be because a child under 18 (being a minor) can not be forced to pay any debts (being fines) incurred by him/her, so the fine could remain unpaid for a very long time and then the statue of limitations could apply.

Further unless they have received a number of cautions they will be able to use the excuse of not being aware of this requirement as they never have had to obtain a licence, which tests that they know the road laws.

So why would they waste the time and effort trying to fine a child without proof that they knew the road laws because of having received a number of cautions. The police should be praised for using common sense in these areas.

You're not a child so the above doesn't apply.

Peter.

Originally Posted by smidsy

...
The issue I have, is that I was written up by a cop who openly admitted that were I a child I would receive three warnings before the fine - this was blatant revenue raising.

Or he figured that the adults are the ones who put helmets on the kids. Fine the adults and the kids might start putting helmets on... or he may also have recently picked up the pieces of someone not wearing a helmet... or he may just figure that giving a $120 fine to a kid is a pointless exercise. There could be any number of reasons why he gave the fine. Personally, I couldn't care less if others wear a helmet or not but it's illegal to not wear one so no real need to get upset if caught.

The local SGT where I grew up wouldn't fine the kids but he'd take the valves out of our tyres. Can't fall off a bike you can't ride. After my old man kicked my backside, he'd go and get the valves and come home to kick my backside again. I wore my helmet every time I rode after that and still do now.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

You're not a child so the above doesn't apply.

Peter.

My point exactly, I'm not a child.
I have almost every licence you can get, I have 26 years driving experience including interstate trucking and have driven in almost every state including snow and ice down in Tas.
I have the situational awareness that comes with all those years driving, I have the observational skills that comes with all those years of experience, and I know the road rules -I'm not a kid that ignores what few road rules he knows or plays chicken with the traffic.
I still think this smacks of revenue raising or quota-ism (having worked for the cops in WA I know that quota's exist) and I still think given the circumstances and my situation that the fine was grossly unfair.

Originally Posted by smidsy

I know the road rules -I'm not a kid that ignores what few road rules he knows or plays chicken with the traffic.

You may not be a kid, but you choose to ignore the road laws. Knowing the law and willfully ignoring it is much worse IMO.

Originally Posted by smidsy

I still think given the circumstances and my situation that the fine was grossly unfair.

I strongly disagree. Your circumstances and situation has nothing to do with getting fined for breaking the law. Next you'll argue that poor people, because of their circumstances, can steal or rob anyone with impunity because of their circumstances.

Traffic fines are completely voluntary. If you can't afford them then don't break the laws. So stop whinging like a kid and cop it sweet. It was your decision to break the law.


Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

You may not be a kid, but you choose to ignore the road laws. Knowing the law and willfully ignoring it is much worse IMO.
I strongly disagree. Your circumstances and situation has nothing to do with getting fined for breaking the law. Next you'll argue that poor people, because of their circumstances, can steal or rob anyone with impunity because of their circumstances.

Traffic fines are completely voluntary. If you can't afford them then don't break the laws. So stop whinging like a kid and cop it sweet. It was your decision to break the law.


Peter.

Now we get in to a whole different area, and yes I do think the current system is flawed and well overdue for overhaul.
In terms of monetary value, I think fines need to be based upon income.
Last year I was working as a teacher taking home $1500 a fortnight and copped a $150 speeding fine, to be honest I didnt really care about the money, I could wear it not happily, but without a lot of stress. But now I'm out of work and living on $140 a fortnight, if I got the same fine, it goes from being 10% to 107% of my fortnightly income - same crime, vastly different penalty in terms of impact and severity.
Fines should be a percentage of the persons income so that the punishment is equal for all - cop writes you a fine, when you go to pay it you take in a pay slip and the penalty is a fixed percentage of your net pay.

More than that though, the whole points system is flawed and should be circumstance based.
Bruce Highway north from Anzac Ave up to near Gympie where it goes single lane, you can do 10kph over quite happily and more than safely - and lets not forget that most penalties and speed zones are based on 1960's and 70's cars with 4 drum brakes and no power assist or ABS.
Now you take that same car doing the same 10k over and place it outside a school at home time, same car, same excess speed but a vastly different amount of danger, yet the same penalty.

As I said in my earlier post, I've got 26 years on the road and almost every licence you can get. I also spent 2 years working for the Speed Camera section of the WA cops, so I've seen both sides of it - oh and incidentally, back when I was working there I had the same conversation with an inspector who had 30 years in the job and he agreed with everything I've just said here.

Anyhoo.....back on topic......

Bushmiller and I came up with an elegant solution on Sunday to salve the problem. It may happen sooner than we thought Paul.

Originally Posted by smidsy

Fines should be a percentage of the persons income so that the punishment is equal for all - cop writes you a fine, when you go to pay it you take in a pay slip and the penalty is a fixed percentage of your net pay.

And if you don't have an income?

Originally Posted by Bedford

And if you don't have an income?

Easy fixed, you get to spend a few hours picking up rubbish or cleaniing graffiti from alongside a road somewhere - could even make it the road where you were caught speeding.
This way the comunity actually gets to benefit from your misdeed.
Personally speaking, given that I am cash poor and time rich at the moment, I would jump at it if I could easily swap the monetary fine for a few hours of community beneficial labour.

Originally Posted by smidsy

Easy fixed, you get to spend a few hours picking up rubbish or cleaniing graffiti from alongside a road somewhere - could even make it the road where you were caught speeding.
This way the comunity actually gets to benefit from your misdeed.
Personally speaking, given that I am cash poor and time rich at the moment, I would jump at it if I could easily swap the monetary fine for a few hours of community beneficial labour.

I have read, and do agree, with most, nearly all, of what you have said. But I don't agree with 'revenue raising' .. think this belongs in the 'conspiracy theory' files.

But ... for all that you say ... you HAVE to remember ... It all starts with you. IF you don't speed, then the whole following sequential chain of events, fair or unfair, can not come about. Fines, punishment, community service, revenue raising, demerit points .... ALL ... start with our own choice when we speed, so we CANNOT blame anyone at all, unless we place ourselves on top of the list.

Just how I see it.

cool bananas ... greg