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  1. #16
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    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  3. #17
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    Climate change is such BS........or not:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...chers/10807470

    Just a little quote from that:
    Further south, Roma has recorded 82 consecutive days with maximum temperatures topping 30 degrees Celsius, breaking last year's 58-day record. (ED: and that record was only "broken" not SMASHED!!! )
    Wednesday also marked Brisbane's 35th straight day of 30C or more, with a top of 34.3C.

    One day, when it's too late to do anything about it (and some scientists are saying that is RIGHT NOW), the CC deniers will have to admit they were wrong all along. We should leave it to them to explain to our children and grandchildren why we didn't do enough to preserve the world we left them with to try and clean up, if at all possible.
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  4. #18
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    And North America has had a huge snow dump.
    Global warming??

    Central Queensland down to Victoria is still in drought.

    If if you want funding for something, creat some media coverage.

  5. #19
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    And it goes on...
    North Qld rainfall event described by BOM as "Exceptional" by BOM and worthy of a special Climate statement.

    Still reckon it's BS, and there is NO climate event possible that will change my mind!!! EVER!
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  6. #20
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    So here we are, 11 months later, and looking quite likely to SMASH another record for the month, even though it's only days old.

    Satdy the 4th January 2020 was 39.8° up here, which is a new January record by 3.4°. I'd say that is a genuine SMASHED record.

    Penrith - just 45 minutes east of here - was another 9° on top of that, at 48.9°, making it the hottest place on Earth for the day. For the perspective of old-timers and 'Mericans, that is exactly 120.0°F.......the "F" stands for Farenheit usually, but on Satdy it stood for f*kked something else.

    So we are looking at:

    • a third straight year of record temps in the Blue Mountains (and I know almost everywhere else is doing it tougher, but I'm a pussy )
    • 17 of the 18 hottest years for the world have occurred since 2000 (including three consecutive record breaking years 2014-15-16)
    • (and remember that at that time there had only been 18 years since 2000.....so all but one)
    • the NSW bushfire season starting in the last month of Winter in 2019
    • the small matter of what appears to be an entire southern half of the country on fire - with no hope of them going out for some months, catastrophic loss of wildlife, farm animals, grazing acres, species loss, etc etc etc etc not to mention profound tourism impacts for (how many) years
    • and a leader known as Smoko, Smirko or ProMo who doesn't when to be quiet, when to talk, when to leave the country, and when to leave people's hands alone (and I don't really see that as a political comment - it's a factual observation that is impossible to disagree with)


    Anyone still need convincing about greenhouse gases causing Climate Change?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post



    Anyone still need convincing about greenhouse gases causing Climate Change?
    Most of the politicians who won the last election and guess who voted them in...most of the dumb Australian electorate. It will be interesting to see how they spin this after it is all over, I am sure they are working out the answers now.
    CHRIS

  8. #22
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    If there was an election in the next 3-6 months I think the outcome would be somewhat different! And don't forget that the Stephen Bradbury of Australian politics didn't win the election - the other dills lost it very badly. It was handed to them on a Green, Brown and charCoal platter. (if you haven't seen that Bradbury clip in a while have a look at the last 15-20 seconds ).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  9. #23
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    43° here.

    Hottest day ever.

    Climate change is a myth.

  10. #24
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    The fires are a result of drought, which if you care to dig into genuine past records and not the dumbed up/down ones that are manipulated by the CC protagonists, you will find there are cycles of drought, floods, etc.

    The drought of the 20's & 30's together with economic woes, then years of above average rainfall of the 50's & 60's, then another drought and so on.

    There is an online link to a log book from the 1800's of a sailing ship on its way to New Zealand and the captain has recorded how ash and embers from SE Australia fell on the ship and set the sails and rigging on fire.

    There are bore core logs/samples taken from all over Australia that records when there were droughts and floods over hundreds and thousands of years but they are conveniently ignored/forgotten.

    The single greatest factor in these current fires is the build up of fuel on the ground which is the direct result of the tree huggers having made it almost impossible to do low intensity burns which the aboriginals practiced for thousands of yrs in alternate seasons together with a forest worth of red tape, paper wielding bureaucratic public servants justify there existence at all levels of government and the closure of fire trails or minimal maintenance of them. I have travelled the fire trail that went from the Putty Rd, up over Gospers Mnt and to Newnes/Rylston, it used to be the training ground for the army and remote terrain air strip training for the RAAF, but the tree huggers have made sure its almost obliterated and now we are waiting to hear if we have lost the one natural habitat of the Wollemi Pines.
    There are many documented cases of farmers having lost crops, livestock, sheds, homes because they are no longer allowed to clear fire breaks. They have stopped the farmers from grazing cattle in the high country of the Snowy which has led to an excessive fuel build up.

    Look at how we use water today, cutting metal and stone, manufacturing from paints to chemicals to bottled water, there is documented facts of aquifers on the central coast, Victoria, Queensland near the Glass House Mt being depleted by the water bottle companies because we are too lazy to take our own perfectly good water in a bottle from our own taps. Go figure.

    Climate change, yes, we do have climate change, look at the ice ages, they came, went and came again, what is a real problem is how we use our resources and the nonsensical crops grown in the wrong environment, the classic is the Australian cotton farms in the predominately dry areas using vast quantities of water, building houses on ever decreasing lot sizes on some of the most productive agricultural land in the world and expecting agriculture to be viable in the predominantly dry areas.

    I spent 30 yrs as a RFS captain dealing with this crap, my farther was a dairy farmer, yes I made my career in the building industry but that doesn't make me blind to the follies of it either.

    Renewable energy is the latest thing, fantastic, it will reduce a lot of emissions of all sorts and lead to other issues but that is human progress, from hunters and gathers to agricultural, then onto mechanisation (the industrial revolution) then to the electronic age, from taking 7 months to sail from England to Australia no 17hrs by plane, from looking at the moon from earth to looking at earth from the moon, each age has had it's pros and cons, each one predominately better than the previous and so humanity keeps evolving, but lets use or do those principles that have stood the test of time and incorporate them into future development.
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

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    Ray

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwbuild View Post
    ..look at the ice ages, they came, went and came again,
    Doubtful that there'll be another one though, unless we manage to halt the extreme speed with which we are heating things up. That's the problem - the speed.


    • 97% of Climate scientists agree that the Earth's climate is warming rapidly.
    • How can we, as amateurs (at best) not believe a vast consensus of experts who have trained for years in this stuff?
    • We know that methane, CO2 etc are greenhouse gases (promoting global warming) - it was a proven fact in the mid 19th century. Does anyone dispute that they are greenhouse gases?
    • It is an incontrovertible fact that we have pumped out vast amounts of these gases since industrialisation and broadacre grazing.
    • We are seeing average temps rising at unprecedented rates within the lifespan of a single human.
    • According to the NOAA 2018 Global Climate Summary, the combined land and ocean temperature has increased at an average rate of 0.07°C (0.13°F) per decade since 1880; however, the average rate of increase since 1981 (0.17°C / 0.31°F) is more than twice as great. Sep 19, 2019


    What's missing for the argument to be unconvincing?
    What will it actually take for man-made CC deniers to be convinced? Records broken every year by staggering numbers until we can't live in certain places any longer by around 10 years from now? Would that do it?

    If that would not be enough, then what would it take? Given the current situation, the overwhelming evidence and agreement amongst the scientists, I think it is not an unfair question to ask of deniers: name the threshold where the denial arguments are found and accepted to be fallacious (by the deniers).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  12. #26
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    The exact same argument can be said of the CC brigade, time will judge who is right, in the mean time, use the FACTS of science, not the cherry picked ones, as I said there has been both warming and cooling over eons of time but there is also the scenario that there is a finite time for earth regardless of what we do, hence, humanity and its ever searching questioning character will always push boundaries either physical or theoretical.
    Its a bit like the millionaire wanting to employ a tax consultant so he asked each applicant what 2+2 equals, the one who said what result do you want got the job.
    The point Im making is there are long established practices that are environmentally sound , proven and beneficial that should be continued but at the same time lets be more circumspect in how we use our resources which is far more important.
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
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  13. #27
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    FenceFurniture and RWbuild are both absolutely right.

    There is ZERO doubt that, we as humans, are causing vast changes to our environment.

    I dont know the future, but a blind man can see that we are destroying our planet on a vast scale.

    Yesterday we watched a David Attenborough film on Borneo. Shot 40 years ago (?)... ALL of the VAST forests, vast plant life, vast animal life is now 100% mono-crop Palm Oil tress. The photo, from space, did not need a Greenie to interpret it. If, as a person, it didn't slap you hard in the face then one must plainly stupid. The scale of the destruction is mind-blowing.

    Same with our country. RWbuild is bang on... farmland turned into 300sqm suburban blocks... Soft drink companies and cotton farmers pumping ancient aquifers to satisfy this years profits.

    We must change. We must.

    We absolutely MUST.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    There is ZERO doubt that, we as humans, are causing vast changes to our environment.

    I dont know the future, but a blind man can see that we are destroying our planet on a vast scale.

    We must change. We must.

    We absolutely MUST.
    I couldn't agree more, but sadly it's unlikely to happen. It's ridiculous to hear people saying "I don't believe in CC" as if it was an opinion rather than a scientific fact. No one denied the Ozone problem in the late '60s when Rowland and Molina published their paper which explained the phenomenon with no stronger experimental basis than a computer model. It led to the world banning fluorocarbons on far less evidence than CC.

    In 1896 a Nobel prize winning Swedish scientist called Svante Arrhenius explained the effect of greenhouse gases almost as an unexpected consequence. His formulas are still in use today because they can be experimentally proven. I learned about it in first year high school science in 1959 and then at Uni when I studied science. Most solar energy is reflected from the Earth's surface. Certain molecules (greenhouse gases) absorb this energy and trap it in the atmosphere warming it. Give me a spectrophotometer and a decent lab and I'll prove it to you. Every scientist who has studied physical chemistry knows this as an undeniable fact. That is, except for a very few in the pay of a small group of plucky oil men brave enough to deny the science. Lots of their nonsense makes sense to people who don't want to acknowledge the facts, like CO2 being only 412 parts per million. Try eating a microgram of plutonium and see how you travel. It matters.

    Data points in climate are very noisy and climate has certainly fluctuated over millennia but the trends and correlations are crystal clear as are the reasons. Ice ages are caused by Milankovitch cycles where the Earth tilts in orbit regularly but infrequently. Not the case in CC.

    Sadly it's all about change and money and we'll probably have to hit the wall before anything is done globally.

    mick

  15. #29
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    NO GLOBAL WARMING IN NEW ZEALAND
    It damn cold and wet, wet, wet.

    Woodworking mates in the USA have feet of snow as early as

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowie View Post
    NO GLOBAL WARMING IN NEW ZEALAND
    It damn cold and wet, wet, wet.

    Woodworking mates in the USA have feet of snow as early as
    I really hope this is a tongue in cheek comment.

    Global warming results in climate change meaning existing patterns will be disrupted. It does not equate to hot weather everywhere. Anecdotal reports are used by the likes of Trump to try & discredit decades of science, using the trite and fallacious conceit of a confusing single data point with a statistical trend. This argument also (and perhaps deliberately for those with vested interests) confuses climate and weather, which are related but distinct. Weather is the state of the atmosphere at any given time and place. Climate is the long-term average of the weather. Climate is defined not only by average temperature and precipitation but also by the type, frequency, duration, and intensity of weather events. Climate trends are showing changes to historic weatehr patterns and towards more frequent extreme events.

    The insurance industry and their actuaries has been taking note of this for at least three decades and has been factoring it into their pricing, risk management and business models. (Pity our genius politicians have not been doing the same. and I include the idiot Greens who scuppered a carbon tax in Oz for their own nefarious ends.)

    Scientific American has an excellent article here:
    Why Global Warming Can Mean Harsher Winter Weather - Scientific American

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