Thread: Nanny / Police state?

Next they will email car dealers to ask them to stop selling cars so we can reduce the road toll

It's akin to a commercial I saw after watching a late night movie on SBS. The vision showed smoking chimney stacks, a dying planet and finished with cows. The TVC was for vegans and their message was to save the planet from carbon emissions we should all stop eating cows and become vegans.

The common sense of some group or organisations at times leaves me scratching my head.

Originally Posted by Waldo

... to save the planet from carbon emissions we should all stop eating cows and become vegans.

If God didn't want us to eat cows, He wouldn't have made them out of meat.

I agree it's over the top but the headline is misleading too - the police didn't call for a ban on alcohol.
I can understand the police attitude even if I don't agree with their request. The question "where will it all end" can be answered by, "for the police it doesn't".
If they are lucky they just end up stopping a fight and giving evidence in court. However, attending road accidents, coping with the carnage, informing the parents not to lay a place at the table is part of their job.
Then it starts all over again.
I don't think I'd be thinking too straight after constantly dealing with the results of alcohol abuse.
Jim

Do the police honestly expect anyone who sells alcohol for a living to take any notice of such a request?

I'd certainly support a ban on alcohol consumption in a public place.

I guess on the face of it , it seems to be a good idea. But then why would those want drink simply buy ahead of time and get drunk anyway.

Sorta reminds me of the logic behind the six o'clock swill from the 50s and 60s.

Been In Chile for a few days now. Last Sunday was the second round of Presidential election voting. No alcohol can be sold here on election days. Don't know if it's good or bad policy or whether it changes behaviour, but the election was nice and peaceful.

The problem is we don't punish offenders. This like many legal issues is about punishing the majority to look like they are doing something, while the core group of repeat offenders get away with a pat on the wrist. It's not just drunken violence, it's drink driving, speeding and a host of other antisocial activities.

If you have a look at the data, where it's available, if we took a very few people out of society via jail or whatever the incidence of crashes, riots etc would fall signifigantly. Trouble is they won't do it because of bleeding heart socialists who are more interested in the rights of the purpetrator than the suffering of the victim.

Opinionated as always...

Originally Posted by damian

The problem is we don't punish offenders. This like many legal issues is about punishing the majority to look like they are doing something, while the core group of repeat offenders get away with a pat on the wrist. It's not just drunken violence, it's drink driving, speeding and a host of other antisocial activities.

If you have a look at the data, where it's available, if we took a very few people out of society via jail or whatever the incidence of crashes, riots etc would fall signifigantly. Trouble is they won't do it because of bleeding heart socialists who are more interested in the rights of the purpetrator than the suffering of the victim.

Opinionated as always...

Damian are you willing to come down here to Melbourne and run as an independant at the next election later on this year - I would certainly vote for you

Yesterday whilst driving, a blind man (with his wife) got on our near full tram. By the time we reached the next stop this kid (aged around 14) hadn't given up the seat that is there for disabled/elderly folk when required. I asked him to get up and allow the blind gentleman to sit down but whilst getting up begrudgingly he complained he was being victimised. I then got on the microphone and told him (and anyone else listening) that in my day you didn't need to be asked you did it out of politeness and good manners. Not many youngsters (well who use public transport) seem to respect (or care) about disabled or elderly people these days, or I am alone in thinking this?

Cheers
MH

Your in victoria so you know what bogan means. Such people have always been present in our society, I grew up in the western suburbs of sydney, where they are called "westies". I noticed, oh maybe 20 years ago, that we seemed to go from tolerating rude, loud, aggressive and thick people to celebrating them. Note I grew up surrounded by people who were unsophisticated, poorly educated, just plain dumb etc. I don't think less of them for any of that, and I don't expect everyone to pull themselves out of the gutter like I did, but praising people for bad behaviour I think is a step too far.

It has been suggested that we are suffering from a couple of sucessive generations of spoiled kids, and we've now reached a point where they expect everything for nothing and never to suffer any consequences. I don't know. I recall "adults" hammering us when we were young, I also recall that the predictions of my cousin and I ending up in jail didn't come true, nor that the school prefects would do well in life. Last I looked he and I are comfy middle class and most of the "good kids" ended up alcoholics and divorced.

Proper research has shown there are a percentage of people in society predisposed to lying and thieving, and a percentage predisposed to irresponsible behaviour like drink driving and alcohol fueled violence. I haven't seen proper data for the street violence thing but I have seen some for car crashes. The fact is speeding tickets and booze buses don't work for lots of reasons, but one biggy is this core group of repeat offenders. I don't suggest everyone found speeding or DUI should be clapped in irons, there are a specific group of serial serious offenders, many with at least one fatality under their belts, some with quite a few killings and maimings. Doesn't matter what you do to them they just keep on re-offending. Nothing short of ongoing jail will protect us from them.

Incidentally:

Road safety statistics

This is qld. Take a look at the death's per year graph in the annual reports. This one even shocked me. Steady decline until 1998, the year speed cameras were introduced to qld, that year a rise and plateau. The governments own numbers show speeding tickets don't reduce speed related crashes, what they do very well is increase crashes where inattention is a signifigant factor.

I need to get a life don't I ?

Originally Posted by damian

I don't suggest everyone found speeding or DUI should be clapped in irons, there are a specific group of serial serious offenders, many with at least one fatality under their belts, some with quite a few killings and maimings. Doesn't matter what you do to them they just keep on re-offending. Nothing short of ongoing jail will protect us from them.

Hi Damian,

Nothing wrong with your attitude towards 'bogans' I just wish there were more people out there with enough guts to write what they really feel instead of doing nothing and going along complaining but having no bottle to do anything about it. As I have mentioned previously I lost a cousin back in the old country because of a drink driver. It devastated her mother who died within a year from a broken heart. As you say these people (even if they are not repeat offenders) have shorten one persons life not to say of the trauma to the rest of the family. If they are to be allowed out into society then they can if they have their hands and lower part of their arms chopped off so that should solve any re-offending. If you want to act irresponsibly then you have to pay the consequences - no second chances... there are plenty of alternatives.

Most of the prefects in my final year at school (including me) have gone on to have successful careers without anyone going off the rails. Generally speaking it is people with a low IQ who are the mainstream criminals in this World - unless power (or greed) has gone to their head.

Oh well got to go out and face the general public again. I wonder which moron(s) will cross my path tonight.

Cheers
MH

Originally Posted by Metal Head

.......Generally speaking it is people with a low IQ who are the mainstream criminals in this World .......
MH

Gotta call you on that one....they are the petty criminals, but the smart ones are just better at avoiding prosecution.
TM

Originally Posted by TermiMonster

Gotta call you on that one....they are the petty criminals, but the smart ones are just better at avoiding prosecution.
TM

Smart enough to employ lawyers and accountants who can find the loopholes for them anyway. Who is the crim then?
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by Metal Head

Generally speaking it is people with a low IQ who are the mainstream criminals in this World - unless power (or greed) has gone to their head.

Seems like the jury is out on that one Metal, here are some abstracts from a couple of papers on the subject

NCJRS Abstract - National Criminal Justice Reference Service

Intelligence and Crime - Measuring The Size Of The Iq-crime Correlation

Intelligence and Crime - Explaining The Iq-crime Correlation

Sociological factors and family history are strong correlations. But IQ can be quite easily manipulated. There was a great show last year on SBS where a bloke trained to do the Mensa test and lifted his IQ 20 odd points in a few weeks. I think its a relatively meaningless measure, it measures your ability to do an IQ test.

I notice there was the usual bogan violence again this year, Maybe we should cancel Australia Day altogether?