Thread: Neighbours landscaping has removed supporting soil from tall fence posts

Thanks again gents.

Last night, the neighbour came over to tell us the workman would be over on sunday morning to get stated.
And he would need access to our side and he needed the area clear of the considerable number of pot plants and chimes.
I wasn't happy with having to clear for him when I feel he really doesn't need access to our side.
They asked if I'd be here. I agreed to make sure I was.
Then they told me they wouldn't be around.
Which later kinda started working on my nerves. i.e. paranoia.

Woke this morning really needing to get it sorted properly.
Finally went over with the wife and the neighbour was quite congenial.

They are still sorting some reno works.
And acknowledged they have spent a small fortune.
But really it looks fantastic.

And they have already installed the rain water drainage along our shared fence line.
Whewh!

There are 4 fence posts that will be fixed.

They also confirmed the builder told them, at the time of the earth works removal, they did not need a permit or inspection.
They insisted and got a permit and the after inspection passed.
So as far as I can tell they are and have been doing all the right things.

I have to say there is a 3 to 4 foot of exposed dirt right next to our shared tree.
It looks terrible.
I was shocked with how bad it looked.
At this point I did ask to see the paperwork on the permit and passed inspection.
On review, I should have said they might want to have another look at paperwork to confirm for themselves.
Perhaps they allow for different inspection parameters around a tree.

We've arranged for Sunday morning at 9am for the fencing contractor to start digging from either side.
I really don't feel he needs to dig from our side but we have agreed to allow him access.

He claims to be able to spend 4 hours to complete the work.
I have my doubts.
I won't be doing anything until he actually rocks up.

I did mention I wasn't feeling him capable on the day he came over.
As he was a bit short when I queried his need to dig from our side.
Him saying if he pushed too hard on post that it would snap in half is the reason.
But also mentioned I understand him getting up at 6am having a full day then quoting at 7:30pm in the dark.
Then trying to convince a non-paying neighbour what he is suggesting is correct.
They presented his professional brochure and confirmed they were quite happy with him doing the job.

They told me his plan was to install new posts about a foot to the left of each current post.
I then mentioned my suggestion about one short post beneath each post to support the weight of the original post.
And another keeping the fence up right.

Again, as far as I can tell they are and have been doing all the right things.

Hi Barry

there are things in your post that, for me, don't add up

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

They also confirmed the builder told them, at the time of the earth works removal, they did not need a permit or inspection.
They insisted and got a permit and the after inspection passed.
So as far as I can tell they are and have been doing all the right things.

I have to say there is a 3 to 4 foot of exposed dirt right next to our shared tree.
It looks terrible.
I was shocked with how bad it looked.
At this point I did ask to see the paperwork on the permit and passed inspection.
On review, I should have said they might want to have another look at paperwork to confirm for themselves.
Perhaps they allow for different inspection parameters around a tree.

without knowing what your local council requires, it's quite possible that an excavation limited to less than 1.2 m doesn't need a permit.
However, I would be surprised if your local Tree Preservation Order doesn't say something about interfering with the roots of trees and the soil supporting those roots.

If the situation looks terrible from their side -- that is not your worry. Your "worry" is adequate support for the soil so it doesn't erode into the neighbour's property and that your garage / carport is properly supported. And remember that any structure needs to be on the neighbour's side of the boundary.

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

We've arranged for Sunday morning at 9am for the fencing contractor to start digging from either side.
I really don't feel he needs to dig from our side but we have agreed to allow him access.

He claims to be able to spend 4 hours to complete the work.
I have my doubts.
I won't be doing anything until he actually rocks up.

They told me his plan was to install new posts about a foot to the left of each current post.

this should support the fence, but what about retaining the soil? and support for your garage?

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

Again, as far as I can tell they are and have been doing all the right things.

if the neighbour's had been doing "all the right things" you wouldn't have this problem.

something like
400mm and above needs a retaining wall.
Retaining wall needs to be 400mm away from other structures and fence line.
otherwise a permit.

1m height ok. above needs a permit.

something weird that the height must equal the distance(?)

Im thinking the fence and its plinth will be considered the retaining wall.
Im also thinking, We just need to make sure the distance from the bottom of the plinth to the top of the soil is zero.

the terrible part is the massive height of the exposed roots.
I find it hard to believe it passed inspection.

i'll have another conversation once the fence has been fixed regarding the soil erosion.

What surprises me is that a contractor is coming not only on a Sunday but at 9am.
While there is nothing to stop them coming, I am not sure if they can use power tools before 10.

Hope it all works out.

Any chance of a few photos, 2+2 isn't equaling 4 in my interpretation of the situation. It also depends a lot on the type of soil and sub soil type.
Your carport/garage on the boundary line is still a concern as there will be settlement and fretting subsidence under your slab as at the moment their is nothing for the compaction load forces of the building mass to compress against hence degradation of the load bearing material under the structure.A structural engineer would best to clarify this.

Originally Posted by Handyjack

I am not sure if they can use power tools before 10.

From the EPA website the prohibited times for noise from power tools etc are :

Monday to Friday: before 7 am and after 8 pm &

Weekends and public holidays: before 9 am and after 8 pm.

Peter.

thanks gents.

Yes its the noise.
He wanted to start a 8am.
I mentioned the noise is only allowed after 9am on sunday.
I'm pretty sure they think having a full conversations and non-powered tools banging about right outside the sleeping bedroom window is OK at any time.

the soil is pretty much clay.
With loose soil for plants on top.

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

something like
400mm and above needs a retaining wall.
Retaining wall needs to be 400mm away from other structures and fence line.

1m height ok. above needs a permit.

something weird that the height must equal the distance(?)

this doesn't add up for me.

If a retaining wall is required -- and the excavation you've described does require a retaining wall -- and that wall needs to be a minimum of 400mm clear of the boundary -- and if the retaining wall is higher, the clearance to the boundary must be equal to the wall's height) then the fence should be being supported by the material behind the retaining wall, not on new longer posts.

I'm interpreting the "fix" you are describing as you having consented to the retaining wall being located on the property boundary, thus forming part of the "boundary fence"

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

the terrible part is the massive height of the exposed roots.
I find it hard to believe it passed inspection.

what are your local council rules around tree preservation?
does what you have described comply?

talk to an arborist. Is the tree at risk of dying?

I can add nothing in the way of engineering suggestions but, from what you have written, the legal implications could be quite substantial if further damage occurs..

Is there a body in Victoria like the Queensland administrative Appeals Tribunal that can help deal with these cases?That may be another port of call.

It seems to me that full responsibility lies with the neighbours who should have had a proper building inspection carried out before embarking on any work and such
inspection should have resulted in proper advice about engineering solutions for the fence and any need for retaining walls.

The legal bun fight that WILL ( not could ) erupt if disaster occurs will be lengthy and will most probably be sorted out through insurance claims and counter claims.

You, however, don't want to wait for that disaster to happen so you might need to get some advice from a solicitor and have them write a letter to your neighbours
should all other avenues of approach fail.

Best of luck with it.

Originally Posted by ian

t -- and that wall needs to be a minimum of 400mm clear of the boundary -- and if the retaining wall is higher, the clearance to the boundary must be equal to the wall's height)

Where did you get that from?

Tools

Originally Posted by Tools

Where did you get that from?

post #19 from Barry

400mm and above needs a retaining wall.

Retaining wall needs to be 400mm away from other structures and fence line.
otherwise a permit.

1m height ok. above needs a permit.

something weird that the height must equal the distance(?)

I've interpreted Barry's last sentence to mean that the distance between the retaining wall and any structure or boundary should be equal to the height of the wall. So a 600 mm high wall would need to be 600 mm clear of the fence line.

Note Barry has posted his recollection of the wording. He hasn't posted the actual requirements or a link to those requirements, so at this stage what Barry has posted is all we have to go on.

Originally Posted by ian

Note Barry has posted his recollection of the wording. He hasn't posted the actual requirements or a link to those requirements, so at this stage what Barry has posted is all we have to go on.

Yes, but has the wording come from an authoritative document or from the mouth of an "expert" at a dinner party?

Tools

Perhaps you need to ask Barry this

Thanks again gents.

Fence builder rocked up at 9am as requested.
He came over and had a quick word on what going to happen.

He was much nicer but still a bit loud and abrupt.
I just matched his tone and volume.

Of course there was the 10mins rant on why the fence wasn't constructed very well.
I mentioned the fence was fine for years and years until they started excavating.


He was very very happy with us moving all the pot plants (30) and chimes (150) and huge bluestone blocks (10) and huge blue grey volcanic rocks (15) away from the fence.

I thought he needed it clear to dig.
But it turned out he just needed them out of the way to push the fence upright.

If anything got caught under the fence while he was leveraging it up it would "snap the post in half".

Now I understand.
And he did very little digging from our side.

2 lengths of plinths were seriously deteriorated.
I asked him if he would be happy to replace them.
And we agreed if I would go get them he would put them up.

$6.25 each so no big deal.

Wanted to use some synch ties to wrap around my car port posts.
Would have to remove and probably replace some paling.
As removing them would snap them in half.
And would have to source the extra tall palings myself as ~2M palings are the norm.
Nixed that straight away.
As I didn't want it possibly damaging or start a slow deterioration of my structure.
Nor did I want to spend time chasing down the extra tall palings.

H mentioned once everything was cleared he could push and hold the fence upright with his body strength.

He ended up wedging a couple of 2x4s against their house to keep it upright.
Screwed into the fence to keep them from falling in the wind.

Told me I just needed a cordless drill to remove the screws after the cement on the post cured.
Coupladays.

The fence is up straight now.

He's going to use an auger(?) to dig down 1METER (not 1 foot)

And he is going to place 4 new posts each to the left of the original posts.
1 meter deep.
Cutting out notches to fit the railings.

Which i thought would be hard to keep the weight distributed.
i.e. one notch could be 5mm higher supporting all the weight of the other notches, etc.


And will NOT be cementing the old post back in either.
I must have had a funny look to that and he just said "Trust me" three times.
Doesn't matter what profession you're in.
You could be the pope and say "trust me" and it wouldn't sound right. LOL

Anyway, my lady comes up and tells me there is sparks coming from the fence now.
Noise cancelling headphones on.
I went down and could see they had used the cement reenforcing bar mesh as a climbing plants trellis.
welded(?) onto metal (star?) fence posts that were concreted into the ground.
He made short order removing these with a grinder.