Thread: Are public servants allowed to lie?

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Nope.

Re-elected without fuss despite being probably the least competant administration in the history of the State!

When you've completely screwed the Health System, Infrastructure Generally, Education, Roads and Water Supply and get re-elected anyway, you have a mandate to say and do what you like!

P

No Midge it's nothing to do with how the government has managed (or mismanaged as the case maybe) its an unfortunate function of a totally inept opposition. Same here in Tassie. The Opposition parties here (Liberal and Greens) are a disorganised rabble who squabble among themselves all the time. It didn't matter that our Health and Education systems were in utter disrepair, the punters just didn't trust the opposition to fix it because they couldn't sort themselves out. Better the devil they knew who at least got the economy moving and unemployment down.

Just reassuring you all that this is not causing me any grief or suffering at all and I'm definitely not losing any sleep over it. It's actually an enjoyable diversion for me, had a meeting with three very high ranking public oxygen thieves last month and watched them squirm when I told that that I was intent on causing maximum embarressment in the media if answers weren't forthcoming. (Perverse pleasure I know, but you gotta find your pleasure where you can) Since then I've obtained written proof of this lie I'm talking about, and it's all water tight: Letter from X saying one thing, official document (legally obtained) from same department clearly proving that either:
a) he's a total incompetent that doesn't know how to access information, or:
b) he was lying through his teeth.

I've also found proof (again, all in writing, official documents) that people in this department acted in a manner that was highly unethical and possibly illegal.

I'm waiting on some more documents that I've applied for under the Freedom of Information Act which should also contain lots more highly embarressing stuff.

My question of whether lies were allowed was very naive I realise, but I did mean it. I assume they're not meant to, or at least they're not meant to get caught doing so, but I was really wondering if they were duty bound not to lie.

Mick

Mick,

There should be a "Code of Conduct" or such outling an officers responsibilities and behaviour in the workplace. Ask for a copy or search the Web as it should be a whole of Government policy.

I expect it will be a fairly weak document in terms that it can only be used in an Industrial Arena for dismissal or reprimand.

A Public Servant is not above the law and if they have done something unlawful then they can be prosecuted.

Lieing is an can of worms - can you prosecute a used car salesperson, a bank manager, real estate agent or your partner for telling you a falsehoood?
I don't think so but you can take action on a consequence caused by telling that lie.

Also a person when convicted of a crime does not get prosecuted again because they pleaded not guilty. I hope that makes sense.

I am no laywer and it would be interesting to get other opinions more qualified than mine. Sounds like you are having fun.

Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

but I was really wondering if they were duty bound not to lie.

Mick

Mick they always seem to use the word " misleading " , like "misleading the parliament" and never say he/she lied when we all know that they do lie, makes you wonder how much of "Yes Minister" was true and how much was written by the script writers just for the show

Rgds

Hi Journeyman

This has a familiar ring to it. A Fire Service Asst Commissioner .

Report it to the Ombudsman.

Then put it in a drawer and "forged abooood it "

cheers

dazzler

Hi Journeyman Mick,

I am glad that you are willing to stand up for this belief. A lot of us (myself definately included) can resign ourselves to the old adage that they will just get away with it anyway so why put yourself out there for more greif.
But the fact is that if more of us stood up to this sort of thing then change would have to happen. If enough of us decided that injustice was wrong and that those supposedly representing us were not above the law, then they would have to start looking at their behaviour more closely and realising that covering themselves and working for personal or party gain is not what it is really about.

Good on you, I hope that next time something like this happens to us cynical ones that we choose the path you have chosen in standing up and being counted for what is right.

Do what you gotta do Mick, Sheddies suggestion has more than enough merit, have done similar in the past myself, but not for such high ideals.
BTW self respect is not overrated, even if no-one else knows what Michael achieves he will know.

Bruce,
when I achieve what I set out to do in this matter a lot of people will know, and more than a few people will wish that they had acted otherwise.

Mick the crusader

The trick is to let the evidence speak for itself. If you go into this as an angry crusader out to hang this guy the shutters will go up and they'll tar you as a 'nutter' (a term politicians use to describe pesky constituents). Go for it with this in mind,

Cheers
Mike
PS: wish I could be there to give you a hand. I love this stuff... mwahhhhhaaaaa

Sheddy,
I've gone to great pains not to look like a nutter (just threw that crusader tag in there for a joke). The evidence does speak for itself and is quite damning, I'm just waiting on a FOI application to come through so I'll have some more. I'm just amazed that someone would lie like this when it's so easy to get the truth and when an admission of shortcomings with proposed actions to avoid similar occurences would have been pretty painless. To quote the bard: "What a twisted web we weave, when at first we practice to decieve". It'll be a while yet before it all comes out, but when it does, rest assured I'll be posting a few links here.

Mick

Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Sheddy,
I've gone to great pains not to look like a nutter (just threw that crusader tag in there for a joke). The evidence does speak for itself and is quite damning, I'm just waiting on a FOI application to come through so I'll have some more. I'm just amazed that someone would lie like this when it's so easy to get the truth and when an admission of shortcomings with proposed actions to avoid similar occurences would have been pretty painless. To quote the bard: "What a twisted web we weave, when at first we practice to decieve". It'll be a while yet before it all comes out, but when it does, rest assured I'll be posting a few links here.

Mick

I await the expose and the outcome with bated breath....go get 'em...

Hi Mick

Just make sure you keep your sanity and if you find that you are constantly thinking about it (constantly focused on it IYKWIM) then take a bit of a break. It would not be healthy if you think about this as you go to bed at night for example.

I had a similar experience with my last govt employer and had all the evidence to irrefutably prove wrongdoing and lying (and I am an investigator by trade) but in the end they still got away with it and the only silly bugger to pay was me lying awake at night. The bad guys simply said that they were unused to this type of incident and did the best that they could and would do better next time. Case closed.

Many govt ombudsmans offices have moved away from pecuniary action and employ educative or behavioural change to deal with these things.
( )

Just a heads up and remember your sanity is more important than justice.

Good luck mate

Dazzler,
thanks for your concern, but you needn't worry, it's definitely not keeping me awake at night. I've actually got to push myself a bit to write each letter, not because I don't believe in what I'm doing but because there's heaps of other things with which I'd rather fill my time. More like a duty or responsibility than an obsession.

Mick

Go for them mick