Thread: Need to bash stuff

You might find red gum a bit too heavy for these. The heads are traditionally made from beech or oak; maybe hickory was used for the handle but as they only hit softened materials that "gave" the shock absorbancy of hickory wasn't really needed. If I had to make one from Aussie timbers I'd likely pick either Tassie Oak or one of the lighter gums such as spotted or blue.

They are used mainly in coppersmithing to initially form hollows before they are fine tuned with dollies and planishing hammers. When I'd beat copper sheet into a ball for makig ballcock floats I'd use one to basically "push" a copper disk through a round hole in a steel former. I once used one on 1/16" ally sheet to form a motorcycle mudguard; I had to use a pile of rags held in my lap instead of a sand or shot bag.

+ 1 for spotty for the handle. For non ferrous material, I'd even use a softer timber, camphor springs to mind, for the "give" in the timber.

Matt, we just used a ball peen hammer on a wooden stump, aluminium sheet might work with a wooden hammer.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

You might find red gum a bit too heavy for these. The heads are traditionally made from beech or oak; maybe hickory was used for the handle but as they only hit softened materials that "gave" the shock absorbancy of hickory wasn't really needed. If I had to make one from Aussie timbers I'd likely pick either Tassie Oak or one of the lighter gums such as spotted or blue.

They are used mainly in coppersmithing to initially form hollows before they are fine tuned with dollies and planishing hammers. When I'd beat copper sheet into a ball for makig ballcock floats I'd use one to basically "push" a copper disk through a round hole in a steel former. I once used one on 1/16" ally sheet to form a motorcycle mudguard; I had to use a pile of rags held in my lap instead of a sand or shot bag.

Thanks Cliff.
I actually think the weight can ba an advantage, tho swinging a hammer for a long time is tiring.[emoji41]
I have had a mallet in the past ,that yes the handle and head were both made of hickory!!
But yes agree traditional the handles are hickory only.All my panel beating hammers are all hickory.

Um not sure I agree they were used mainly for just coppersmithing I've seen tinsmiths coach builds metalworkers use than.
It was one of the first tools I was instructed to pick up when I did my trade school work as a panel beater.
And any metal forming books I've seen all reckoned using them.

Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by Pat

+ 1 for spotty for the handle. For non ferrous material, I'd even use a softer timber, camphor springs to mind, for the "give" in the timber.

Thanks Pat
It will be used on steel and aluminium.
But camphor not a bad idea.

Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Matt, we just used a ball peen hammer on a wooden stump, aluminium sheet might work with a wooden hammer.

Chris.
Lecture time(but don't get upset please) you were actually stretching the metal while forming it.
The purpose of the soft hammer head on a soft surface is to move the metal with out stretching it.
Once roughly formed the object panel.
Looks like a bag of walnuts.
It is then planished over a steel stack dolly with a steel planishing hammer.
Your way can work but u run the risk of tearing the metal over stretching it and work hardening to much to soon.
Or wheeled if you have a English wheel(on the which list[emoji39])

Cheers Matt

So at present I'm thinking about doing possible one in red gum because I've got some.
One in camphor laurel because I've got some.
And one in F17 hardwood(tassie oak from bunneys tho I don't really know what species it is)because I've got some.

Stay tuned but, take a seat I drag thinks out exceedingly long time sometimes.

Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

... The heads are traditionally made from beech or oak; maybe hickory was used for the handle but as they only hit softened materials that "gave" the shock absorbancy of hickory wasn't really needed. If I had to make one from Aussie timbers I'd likely pick either Tassie Oak or one of the lighter gums such as spotted or blue.
...

I've often wondered at the 'traditionally used' such and such timber - is it what was readily available and thus used or the only timber they could get or was there actually some thought and rigour put into the selection process.

a bit like why the lamb leg roast had the shank cut through the bone...

I think it would boil down to the end use and what was being used in similar manufacturing; the ones I used as an apprentice were only ever for use on soft materials such a copper, lead and alluminium. They needed to have a strong contact surface so the metal wouldn't damage them, but didn't need a lot of mass to push the material around. Plus the heavier the head the more strenuous it is to wave it around continuously. When the metal was struck it moved and deformed thus slowing the head down "gradually" so the handle didn't need to be made from a shock absorbing material like on a ball pein hammer. Oak and beech were perfect for the heads but as hickory was imported by the ton and turned into handles for the overwhelming majority of bashing impliments it was probably cheaper to "over engineer" and give them shock absorbing handles they didn't need.

Matt; I don't doubt that they do see a lot of use in panel beating as they are nicely shaped for making gradual curves, but in my mind steel thin enough to shape with one of those could only really be stretched. How do you shrink with it? I don't think I'd go anywhere near tinplate with one.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

I think it would boil down to the end use and what was being used in similar manufacturing; the ones I used as an apprentice were only ever for use on soft materials such a copper, lead and alluminium. They needed to have a strong contact surface so the metal wouldn't damage them, but didn't need a lot of mass to push the material around. Plus the heavier the head the more strenuous it is to wave it around continuously. When the metal was struck it moved and deformed thus slowing the head down "gradually" so the handle didn't need to be made from a shock absorbing material like on a ball pein hammer. Oak and beech were perfect for the heads but as hickory was imported by the ton and turned into handles for the overwhelming majority of bashing impliments it was probably cheaper to "over engineer" and give them shock absorbing handles they didn't need.

Matt; I don't doubt that they do see a lot of use in panel beating as they are nicely shaped for making gradual curves, but in my mind steel thin enough to shape with one of those could only really be stretched. How do you shrink with it? I don't think I'd go anywhere near tinplate with one.

Cliff agreed about hickory was possibly the product of choice for the handles for the reason you outlined.
"That's what we use for all handles why would we think else wise[emoji849]"
Ive never used one to "shrink with" I've only ever used them for forming or shaping like this ( pic stolen from google)

The last picture would be a ruff shaping, if for arguments sake you were making a VW hubcap.
Then you would start smoothing out the high and lows before planshing it.
So not really a shrinking tool.
If that all makes sense.

Cheers Matt

I'm glad you said you'd pulled those picks from Google; that is UGLY work!

It's actually a fairly good example of what I mean by needing to shrink; by beating the snot out of it against the leather shot bag the metal is being stretched out into a bubble. I prefer to persuade the material to remain as thick as possible in the middle so rather than streching it into a bubble I force the excess material to thicken up. In the pictures the flat plate has been stretched on the inside but the outer edge wants to reduce it's diameter because the whole shape wants to form a hemisphere. The outer edge has two choices; it either thickens itself to absorb the extra material; or it takes the easy way out and forms big wavy ripples so that the outer circumference is now on average a smaller diameter.

If I was making this hubcap I would be using the beater to gently push the ripples together so that the metal thickens; in order to do that the edge must be trapped against a non-yielding surface. For this I would use a female former with a toroidal edge; ie a really thick block with a dirty great hole in it; the edges of which had been rounded over; like the inside of a donut. Then you just gently beat the ripples into smaller and smaller ones until the hemisphere easily passes through the hole. Afterwards you can put it over a male former and planish it smaller and smaller again.

It helps to use malleable metal which is fairly thick anyway; I'd hate to try to do this with something like the 0.7mm or so sheet steel used on modern cars. The 40 thou or thicker steel used on old timey bodywork would form ok, but would need to be annealed over and over again. Easier to use a press or an English wheel to stretch the steel into shape.

Ally used to annoy me due to the need to anneal it every two minutes; I used a hard soap scribble as a temperature indicator. When scribble go black you have only seconds to pull it from the flame or you end up trying to work with a silvery puddle.

Some good points Chief,
We use to call the gatherings around the edge puckers and we're taught to shrink them in on them self like your suggesting.
We were also taught to make puckers around the perimeter to create the form then shrink them in on them self.
But we're going way off topic.
My original question regarding red gum as a timber of choice.
Weight is possibly one of its down sides.
My only other slight concern is it being to brittle.
Will it hold together or just splinter apart.
Also should I soak the hammers in an oil like BLO or something.

Cheers Matt

Ah yes; puckers! Long time since I heard them referred to by that name. I agree; we wandered off topic but thanks for the trip down memory lane!

I personally don't think redgum would be a suitable choice; I would rather use the lump of F17. Vic redgum is a gorgeous cabinet timber (almost as speccy as QLD redgum ); but I seem to recall it being rather splintery and crumbly on sharp edges, a bit like ironbark. And unless you're planning to use it on 20 gauge steel plate you probably don't need the extra mass.

So; I think redgum wouldn't be very good but really only you can answer that. Would you use it for a mallet head for belting hoop ended chisels?

Well after an extremely long and painful labour this morning.
Thumper arrived on the work bench screaming and thumping her lungs out,looking very red gum.
I even got to print off a label for the handle ,well ok I brought them($9 from bunnings I can't beat that and time is not my friend)
Now ,let's see how she handles it from here on.
I've spoken to Sally ,and if I start to look like a one armed pop eye, she's to tell me .



Cheers Matt