I need to get a grip on my Vices

**Simplicity** · 28th August 2016, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

I have not used it yet ,as I had to do some concreting today (I dislike concreting nearly as much as I dislike house painting). I quickly stuck the first handle I could find lying around for the pic. I will have to report back at a later date. The intention is for sanding and shaping with the handle horizontal. I can do that in my bench vice ,but there is no quick action ,so I have to wind it in and out too much. Also the vice seems to get in the way at times.

Red? Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and it just so happened I had two cans of red spray paint.

With the vice posted by Pac Man, while I like the concept and despite my flippant remark, I have a small nagging concern that the device will "wobble" and I think that could be annoying. You may recall that I have a saw vice for sharpening with a single ball (if that were a bovine we'd call it a stag

)and that suffers from exactly the same problem. I don't want to chase the handle around the bench! I think the author did mention ,this was version Mk2 for that very reason. Possibly he resolved the issue when he beefed up the components.

However, I like it's aesthetics and the opportunity to have a laugh at it's expense.

What it does mean ,is that I may have to give some thought to a solution.

I'm sure that Sally will watch your purchase with interest and whatever the result will be understanding.

Regards
Paul

Paul,
You now ,have actually sent me back to the drawing board.
But that's a good thing, thank you ,you saved me some timber and time.
You brought up a good point about vibrations(wobble).
Although my initial idea ,I thought was capable of handling the forces opposed on it
Immm maybe not.
This may certainly be a point of more is actually better.

My initial idea in a basic form, a piece of timber roughly 100/100 mm 300 mm tall split down the middle ,re joined to become giant vice jaws with a scissor action screw.
Sitting on a ball and socket joint.
On a heavy base.
Allowing the whole thing to swivel and tilt around.
I really should sit down and learn sketch up lol

As long as I'm buying balls before 9 pm on Friday night.
I don't think I be raising any eye balls on the home front.

Hope that makes sense.

**Bushmiller** · 28th August 2016, 09:56 PM

Matt

I think the fundamental issue is actually leverage. As you go taller with your device there is increasingly more potential for some bending moment. If you also introduce joints ( balls, sir, in this instance) that potential is increased.

It's a catch 22. You want a variety of angles so multiple positioning is incorporated, but you also want rigidity which is not compatible with the former unless you make the device either massive or with some positive locking as opposed to clamping.

I'm afraid that is not very helpful as I am purely highlighting the problems and not providing the answers.

Regards
Paul

**Simplicity** · 28th August 2016, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

I think the fundamental issue is actually leverage. As you go taller with your device there is increasingly more potential for some bending moment. If you also introduce joints ( balls, sir, in this instance) that potential is increased.

It's a catch 22. You want a variety of angles so multiple positioning is incorporated, but you also want rigidity which is not compatible with the former unless you make the device either massive or with some positive locking as opposed to clamping.

I'm afraid that is not very helpful as I am purely highlighting the problems and not providing the answers.

Regards
Paul

Paul it is getting late,
But please be careful about your choice of words.
Especially if you re read from it's a "catch 22"
To your next paragraph.

If I had had a few drinks and was back traveling England again in a back water pub.
We would be in stitches lol lol [emoji849][emoji849].
But yes it's not very helpful but so very funny.

Cheers Matt

**DaveTTC** · 28th August 2016, 10:55 PM

😞😯

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

**Bushmiller** · 28th August 2016, 11:23 PM

Matt

I have indeed re-read my post. In fact I think the whole post may have an alternative meaning

. However I must protest my innocence and declare, this time, I am the victim of my pure mind and the vice of the wide world.

As to the drinks aspect, in very pleasant English country pubs or otherwise, I would draw your attention to this piece:

"Let schoolmasters puzzle their brains
with grammar literature and learning.
Licquor I stoutly maintain,
gives genius a better discerning."

Having been derided to an intolerable level I am going bush for a couple of days where I will ponder the principle of moments and how to avoid unintentional ambiguity! Sun Tzu, where are you when I need you? Get your sniveling, devious little self up here. Now!

Regards
Paul

**DaveTTC** · 28th August 2016, 11:41 PM

I knew you was pure Paul. Never read it any other way till someone else suggested otherwise 😉

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

**Simplicity** · 29th August 2016, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

I have indeed re-read my post. In fact I think the whole post may have an alternative meaning

. However I must protest my innocence and declare, this time, I am the victim of my pure mind and the vice of the wide world.

As to the drinks aspect, in very pleasant English country pubs or otherwise, I would draw your attention to this piece:

"Let schoolmasters puzzle their brains
with grammar literature and learning.
Licquor I stoutly maintain,
gives genius a better discerning."

Having been derided to an intolerable level I am going bush for a couple of days where I will ponder the principle of moments and how to avoid unintentional ambiguity! Sun Tzu, where are you when I need you? Get your sniveling, devious little self up here. Now!

Regards
Paul

Paul,
I have decided to cleanest my soul
From this post forward I will stop drinking gin at 3 am while reading Marchese De Sade.
Sun Tzu should be most pleased with my new outlook.

And I will try to unravel my vices
Once this blasted winter passes

The new Matt [emoji6][emoji6]

**Bushmiller** · 8th September 2016, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Great looking ,vice Paul ,how are you finding it.?

Matt

Just a small update on my latest vice. It is rock solid in use. I keep a small offcut of saw plate handy to place in the slot in the handle. This way I can clamp the vice as hard as I like without fear of breaking the handle.

I have only used it for sanding so far, but I wish I had had it for clamping during filing operations on new handles. I now alternate between this vice for when I want horizontal operations and my standard bench vice for vertical operations (I'm hoping you are not going to read too much into these practices ). I may have to talk seriously with Sally about some of your interpretations.

I have just finished sanding one of the D-23s for the sloped gullet comparison and it went so well that after downing an alcoholic beverage I am going back out to do the last one (the fifth)! That is unless the alcoholic vice overtakes the saw vice.

Regards
Paul

**Simplicity** · 8th September 2016, 10:07 PM

Paul,
That is great to hear your happy with your new vice(I'm trying to stay serious here).
Yes a bit scrap saw plate in the handle is a great idea.
I nearly broke an early attempt at a handle buy not having a piece in there[emoji20].

I'm still wanting something I can easily clamp a handle in, then move it around so I can get at the handle more easily to shape or sand.
I'm at the Melbourne wood show over the weekend so might see if there's a carving vices to check out and steal ideas from.

I think Sally's has stopped trying to steer me straight [emoji849][emoji849] tho I do get concerned that one day her eyes wont fully roll back.

I also find taking the alcoholic beverage to the bench.
Is far safer than walking back from bench to house to re fill.
Gin and tonic with a hint of silky oak is quite nice.
Or my new favourite cider dirty granny(yes it's called that)
With a touch of steel is nice too.
Cheers Matt

There's a boxing matching in the sharping section I might go see a bit more of[emoji12]

**hiroller** · 8th September 2016, 11:08 PM

Have a look at The Carbatec stand and see if they have one of these:
https://www.carbatec.com.au/clamping...es/parrot-vise
I purchased one a few years ago (on sale) but haven't used it in anger yet as I'm waiting to mount it on a 2nd hand Wilton Pow-R-Arm I picked up a while back. Still on the to do list I'm afraid.

**Simplicity** · 8th September 2016, 11:34 PM

Thanks hiroller
Will do
Cheers Matt

**Bushmiller** · 8th September 2016, 11:56 PM

Talking of the carvers' vice I remembered I saw Don Powell with such as device at the Maleny Wood show. It is probably exactly what you are thinking of, but it definitely moved under the pressure of the carving tool. It didn't worry Don one little bit, but I want something much more stable. Horses for courses I suppose

.

Regards
Paul

**Bushmiller** · 9th September 2016, 12:31 AM

Matt

Some links for you. A video which might give you some idea for the rotational side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5alEkTR4_cA

All the carver's vices seem to rely on the work piece being fixed to the vice by a screw. This is not very satisfactory for a handle unless you leave a sacrificial extra tab of timber that is removed at the end of the process.

This might be an idea coupled with a swiveling vice:

Carving vice 1.jpg

Plus it would present the opportunity to make up one of IanW's timber threads in the process.

This might give you some ideas and would not require a lot of embarrassing explaining as to what your shopping list contained:

Tow ball clamp 1.jpg Tow ball clamp 2.jpg

Tools & Tips Page 2 - Cedarstump.us

This might be a logical development and you can still have a wooden screw too!

Towball vice 3.jpg

Enough from me. That should take care of any free time up until Xmas

.

Regards
Paul

**Simplicity** · 9th September 2016, 07:49 AM

Paul,
I'm feeling slightly squeezed under all that excellent information.
It will take a vice like grip to get through it all
Thanks for that great links and ideas.

Cheers Matt

**lightwood** · 14th September 2016, 05:25 PM

Matt,
cheap and simple...
small vice fixed to a flat board, then into the bench vice.
I throw it under the bench when not in use.
Surprising amount of flexibility.
Cheers,
Peter

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