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Thread: Sawsmithing Anvils
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30th August 2017, 08:53 AM #1
Sawsmithing Anvils
Taking a first step down yet another path, this time making sawsmithing anvils, I took some time today to measure the hardness of the faces of three of my anvils. All of these anvils are of 19th or early 20th century manufacture. The only one I have a date for is the Fisher sawsmithing anvil which was made in 1883. The Fisher and Hay Budden anvils have forge welded tool steel faces. The Peter Wright probably does but it isn't visually apparent. All of the faces are pitted, corroded and dinged so don't pay too much attention to the standard deviations. Each was cleaned using the same methods to produce as uniform a surface on each as was practical.
Anvil Hardness Study 082917a_Page_6.jpgAnvil Hardness Study 082917a_Page_4.jpgAnvil Hardness Study 082917a_Page_5.jpgInnovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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31st August 2017, 11:06 AM #2
In between other tasks today I managed to make some more measurements.
First I tested my 150 kg Soderfors (early 20th century) blacksmith anvil. What a surprise, it's quite variable in face hardness and the average hardness is just over 40 HRC!
I was thinking about the results from the Fisher sawsmithing anvil and began to wonder if anvils for cold working were purposely softer than anvils for hot work. Thus I included a Dixon and a Pexto stake tool. Both of these are mid to late 20th century products so they are likely to be more engineered than are the 19th century anvils.
Stake tools are soft as I had suspected they might be, a little softer even. I know that the Dixon stake tools are marketed primarily for jewelry work but the Pexto anvil is from a set used for working sheet steel including riveting. Perhaps cold-work anvils are intentionally softer, does anybody know?Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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1st September 2017, 12:12 AM #3
Had a quick look around the web for information on anvil hardness and came up with these. Seems that many talk about anvil hardness but nobody has put any instrumental measurements on the web in the 25 years that it's been in existence.
Russian Cast Steel Anvil: anvilfire product report
Anvils-5 Testing Rebound and Hardness - anvilfire.com
Blacksmith-Information
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?558611-Welding-A2-steel-plate-for-anvil-hard-face
https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/191...dness-numbers/
<cite class="_Rm">www.hybridburners.com/documents/M-Main-on-anvil-steel.pdf
</cite>
anvil refacing? I was boned!
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/blo...-hardness.html
<cite class="_Rm">https://www.calsmith.org/Resources/D...csofanvils.pdf
</cite>Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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18th November 2017, 06:56 AM #4
Added a couple more anvils
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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13th October 2018, 03:41 PM #5
It has only taken a year for me to see this thread so my apologies Rob. I think the optometrist will be sending me a reminder soon for check up. That is unless they are a year behind too!
In the last post I was going to comment that the anvils looked like the saw smithing types, but I see you have indeed described them that way. I was beginning to think that my piece of large section railway iron that I use for this purpose might be too hard, but the dedicated saw anvils are up there with their HRC around 62.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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13th October 2018, 06:31 PM #6
Ummm arrrrrr WHS[emoji115]
How did we miss this, I’m blaming Trump for taking all the lime light.
Not all Americans are bad some I actually like.
Cheers Matt(sorry Rob)
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17th October 2018, 05:34 PM #7
Sorry for the delays on my end as well, I've been busier than a one-armed paper hanger.
I've used all of the blacksmith and sawsmith style anvils for hammering saws, haven't noticed a difference so I suspect that anvils are a case of 'hard enough is good enough'.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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17th October 2018, 09:42 PM #8
Rob
I guessed you have been a little busy with the trials. Glad to hear you haven't fallen off the edge of the earth.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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17th October 2018, 10:12 PM #9GOLD MEMBER
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I'll have to find the reference but I recall reading about the preference of some saw doctors to use hardwood for a saw anvil, especially for tensioning, as it has a little give.
So I suspect, that a wide range of hardness might be acceptable.
I'll now have to go looking to back it up but don't hold your breath.
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18th October 2018, 09:04 AM #10
That technique was called 'Blocking' (Online Reference of Disston Saws -- Keystone Saw Works). Blocking was a straightening or kink removing technique. The wood most often mentioned is lignum vitae oriented such that the endgrain of the block was used as the working surface. Other sources cite the use of a soft iron block, particularly in the repair of large bandsaw blades.
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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