Thread: Buying Festool from eBay but from UK?

Sounds to me like you have made your mind up.

Yes I can think of at least one person and I'm sure they'll talk to you about it.
But I gotta ask, do you know anyone who makes their living in Australia selling Festool? And if you do, does taking their livelihood away sit well with you?
Just asking.

since you have considered everything in your post already i dont see the point to this post.

if it were me i wouldnt even bother posting it on here. i wouldnt bother asking for anyones opinion or advice because its usually when you are unsure or unaware of certain gotchas that other senior members on here might be able to help with.

id just go ahead and buy the tool then thays just me though

Please answer the question as asked and don't grandstand your pet .....

"My question is before I hit the "buy" to all has anyone actually imported Festools from the UK into Australia."

DavidG
Moderator.

Originally Posted by LGS

Yes I can think of at least one person and I'm sure they'll talk to you about it.
But I gotta ask, do you know anyone who makes their living in Australia selling Festool? And if you do, does taking their livelihood away sit well with you?
Just asking.

Not my problem. It's call "Free Market" bottom line is if the consumer (me) can source the product from an alternative supply channel then it should be a tipping point for retailers to renounce sale. In fact if you wanted to force a price pressure downwards having folks import the products whilst bypassing the local retail sales channel would be a needed forcing function for Festool to regroup from.

This isn't the days of Dad & Sons Inc Hardware store anymore, most of the retail companies are chains or have capital in other areas other than Festool. As at best I'd guestimate the fixed markup around be around 15% give or take maybe? I'd be curious to see if Festool own the shop fit-outs and stock supply in exchange for low markups...as if you're a retail outlet for Festool having them inside would probably be about increasing your potential footprint in a market you're keen to upsell other things into.

I digress.

That all said, i kind of just panic'd today and went and bought the Circular Saw in from a local Festool outlet. Nice sales folks and I never get sick of having the post sales "training" on the product I just bought. That adds class even though i kind of knew everything he said, it was still good to listen and learn though.

That being said i'm keen to import Festool "other" products that is blades, dominos etc stuff . I've also bought today a Vaccum from Europe on eBay..so curious to see what that comes into the country as.

Apart from the warranty issues there has been insurance companies that have catched onto the parallel importing scenarios and voided claims on tools purchased from overseas markets as they haven't come with the Australian c tick approvals. We have had customers bring the uk seller to our attention & they said that they got an email back saying they couldn't supply to Australian market anyway

The below is not answering the initial question directly, but is in response to the discussion so far....

Originally Posted by mossyblog

Not my problem. It's call "Free Market" bottom line is if the consumer (me) can source the product from an alternative supply channel then it should be a tipping point for retailers...

This isn't the days of Dad & Sons Inc Hardware store anymore, most of the retail companies are chains...

I don't know of a local tool store (excluding Bunnings) that isn't a "Mom and Dad" or "Dad and Sons" store. Even those being part of a group are in fact still "Mom and Dad" or "Dad and Sons" stores. Maybe there is a local tool store owned by a big shareholder owned corporate somewhere, but it would be rare.

Additionally, many suppliers are local family or personal operations. All these family, individual owned businesses and their staff providing tools and service are individuals of your immediate community... you spend time with them during the holiday season, your kids go to kinder with theirs, they have sick family sometimes, have mortgages, have to buy products and groceries locally just like you, and usually (like a significant number of other small businesses in this country) put their family time and home at risk every year they operate. And through running their small business help our local economy and their respective communities.

So please contemplate this before writing them off as impersonal corporate giants.

As an experiment, next time at a craft or trade show ask any stand holder (even those with big name banners over their stands) if the owner of the business and/or family members are there.

Having said all that... therefore I for one am appreciative you purchased your saw locally and received a high level of support from the business concerned who spent the time and money to provide said service.

Originally Posted by nt900

The below is not answering the initial question directly, but is in response to the discussion so far....

I don't know of a local tool store (excluding Bunnings) that isn't a "Mom and Dad" or "Dad and Sons" store. Even those being part of a group are in fact still "Mom and Dad" or "Dad and Sons" stores. Maybe there is a local tool store owned by a big shareholder owned corporate somewhere, but it would be rare.

Additionally, many suppliers are local family or personal operations. All these family, individual owned businesses and their staff providing tools and service are individuals of your immediate community... you spend time with them during the holiday season, your kids go to kinder with theirs, they have sick family sometimes, have mortgages, have to buy products and groceries locally just like you, and usually (like a significant number of other small businesses in this country) put their family time and home at risk every year they operate. And through running their small business help our local economy and their respective communities.

So please contemplate this before writing them off as impersonal corporate giants.

As an experiment, next time at a craft or trade show ask any stand holder (even those with big name banners over their stands) if the owner of the business and/or family members are there.

Having said all that... therefore I for one am appreciative you purchased your saw locally and received a high level of support from the business concerned who spent the time and money to provide said service.

If you're selling Festool you're not exactly doing it tough so stop pandering to the "you steal food out of my mouth" guilt trip. In reality its business and if you are looking to sustain a business model on a markup % of a tool you have no control over or influence on pricing then you deserve to go bankrupt - economics 101.

Your attempt to give "mother statements" around the greater good of business is weak at best in the context of Festools and it just irratates me that you're attempting to take the high road to make your soap box moment count. It has no way been attached to reality and having a Father who owned and ran his own Mitre 10 stores I can honestly say there is huge profits to be made outside Festool range that would make any sales you have in Festool a rounding error. Having also watched how a Franchise also can lock down price models its also interesting to see how having fixed % profit margins vs variable ones can often be both a blessing & curse. It's a curse when your competitors have agility to undercut your prices given they have factored in other ways to absorb their losses to counter yours & vice versa.

Basically, get off your soapbox and rally behind the idea that Festool as a company right now aren't doing the right thing to both the consumer and retailer when it comes to pricing. It's been documented 1000 times in threads like this as sure the Products are absolutely brilliant and I enjoy using them constantly - but in reality, knowing I am paying more $$ for this pleasure whilst the rest of the world has turned a positive into a soured negative, meaning I'm less of an Evangelist of the brand because I feel as an Aussie i have to pay the lions share. Why can't we have a similiar price model to the UK? what's the difference between the two economies (given our GDP one would assert that Australia would be a growth economy so going for Volume of Value would increase the footprint thus building a marge larger dependency over time... so lower price, increase volume, increase usage over time.... short term loss, long term win).

Then if more "evangelists" of the product are in every city, retailers like the one you are attempting to describe reap the rewards given they have usually exclusivity in that area for the said Products.

I'll buy from anywhere right now because I'm not exactly "excited" by Festools localised push on the product(s). I value the products, but i dislike the execution? is that not fair? ... Any company world wide that wants to grow their footprint look for influence / evangelism efforts locally in order to grow. Do they do that here via proxy of retail sales chains? if thats the answer then its an empty vessel giving you the information you can get on a brochure. It's not that person telling you about Festools isnt sincere it's just they have no base of authority. Having someone actually attached to Festool pushing the product(s) within this region creates a two way dialogue (positive & negative).

It also then helps carry the message up to corporate level that pricing is becoming a sour point and blocking issue for adoption. There is now numerous attempts for UK resellers to penetrate AU sales channel with loop holes in the agreement(s) regarding selling online. They can't advertise they ship outside the UK but if asked they will ship it outside the UK.

The internet is global economy now, so mums/dads shops need to figure out their game plan sooner rather than later especially given Australia is going through an import boom right now.

Originally Posted by mossyblog

If you're selling Festool you're not exactly doing it tough so stop pandering to the "you steal food out of my mouth" guilt trip. In reality its business and if you are looking to sustain a business model on a markup % of a tool you have no control over or influence on pricing then you deserve to go bankrupt - economics 101.

Your attempt to give "mother statements" around the greater good of business is weak at best in the context of Festools and it just irratates me that you're attempting to take the high road to make your soap box moment count. It has no way been attached to reality and having a Father who owned and ran his own Mitre 10 stores I can honestly say there is huge profits to be made outside Festool range that would make any sales you have in Festool a rounding error. Having also watched how a Franchise also can lock down price models its also interesting to see how having fixed % profit margins vs variable ones can often be both a blessing & curse. It's a curse when your competitors have agility to undercut your prices given they have factored in other ways to absorb their losses to counter yours & vice versa.

Basically, get off your soapbox and rally behind the idea that Festool as a company right now aren't doing the right thing to both the consumer and retailer when it comes to pricing. It's been documented 1000 times in threads like this as sure the Products are absolutely brilliant and I enjoy using them constantly - but in reality, knowing I am paying more $$ for this pleasure whilst the rest of the world has turned a positive into a soured negative, meaning I'm less of an Evangelist of the brand because I feel as an Aussie i have to pay the lions share. Why can't we have a similiar price model to the UK? what's the difference between the two economies (given our GDP one would assert that Australia would be a growth economy so going for Volume of Value would increase the footprint thus building a marge larger dependency over time... so lower price, increase volume, increase usage over time.... short term loss, long term win).

Then if more "evangelists" of the product are in every city, retailers like the one you are attempting to describe reap the rewards given they have usually exclusivity in that area for the said Products.

I'll buy from anywhere right now because I'm not exactly "excited" by Festools localised push on the product(s). I value the products, but i dislike the execution? is that not fair? ... Any company world wide that wants to grow their footprint look for influence / evangelism efforts locally in order to grow. Do they do that here via proxy of retail sales chains? if thats the answer then its an empty vessel giving you the information you can get on a brochure. It's not that person telling you about Festools isnt sincere it's just they have no base of authority. Having someone actually attached to Festool pushing the product(s) within this region creates a two way dialogue (positive & negative).

It also then helps carry the message up to corporate level that pricing is becoming a sour point and blocking issue for adoption. There is now numerous attempts for UK resellers to penetrate AU sales channel with loop holes in the agreement(s) regarding selling online. They can't advertise they ship outside the UK but if asked they will ship it outside the UK.

The internet is global economy now, so mums/dads shops need to figure out their game plan sooner rather than later especially given Australia is going through an import boom right now.

A bit harsh and narrow minded in my view.

I own a fair amount of power and hand tools including some Festool gear. I buy all of my power tools locally, rarely even from interstate. I have a view of "shop local - think Global". I put money in their pocket and I might get a bit back in mine in return. As far as prices are concerned, I have been able in the past to negotiate better prices than are advertised or price ticketed, even with Festool. With consumables I can generally get prices which are commensurate with what I would pay had I shopped overseas including the shipping. If not the difference has been somewhat negligible given the time it takes to recieve an item purchased from some other far flung land.

It really just comes down to a proper and measured cost benefit analysis.

At the end of the day you need to make the decision that you feel is right for you, but you do need to assess all of the purchasing criteria.

Cheers

I don't, and won't, buy Festool for the same reason that I don't buy "upmarket" (read overpriced) cars, so I don't have an axe to grind.

What strikes me here is this discussion is about a company, Festool, that appears (and I am being circumspect here) to be engaging in not only retail price maintenance but also in price gouging ala Microsoft et al.

We have had 2 replies from Festool retailers and neither of those addressed those issues, other than to say that Festool products imported direct from the UK are potentially electrically unsafe (so they don't kill people in the UK, but they will kill people in Oz?) or along the lines of "well I have a family and a mortgage and we need to eat too".

Doesn't really explain or justify the price disparity, does it?

Originally Posted by mossyblog

My question is before I hit the "buy" to all has anyone actually imported Festools from the UK into Australia.

I have not bought any Festool products - although I would like to.

However, for clarity, how much would the product cost locally, and how much would it cost to import?

Originally Posted by Big Shed

I don't, and won't, buy Festool for the same reason that I don't buy "upmarket" (read overpriced) cars, so I don't have an axe to grind.

What strikes me here is this discussion is about a company, Festool, that appears (and I am being circumspect here) to be engaging in not only retail price maintenance but also in price gouging ala Microsoft et al.

We have had 2 replies from Festool retailers and neither of those addressed those issues, other than to say that Festool products imported direct from the UK are potentially electrically unsafe (so they don't kill people in the UK, but they will kill people in Oz?) or along the lines of "well I have a family and a mortgage and we need to eat too".

Doesn't really explain or justify the price disparity, does it?

You are correct, Fred in saying that Festool appear to be gouging, as this is only an opinion.
But the thing I don't get is that this "This is a free market economy, I can buy where I like" fails to take into account Festool's right to sell for what they want to. No-one says they have to sell at a price you find palatable. Simply, if you don't like the price b---er off. And as an extension of that right to sell under their own conditions, they are quite within their rights to prevent overseas agencies selling their product in another market.
As for the electrically unsafe thing, if the tools from the UK do not have attached to them approval for operation in Australian "conditions", then they will be rejected for claims on the grounds that they do not meet standards. Whether there is a discrepancy between regulations in the UK and Australia or whether they only kill Australians selectively is irrelevant in the eyes of insurers and repair shops.

And as for "Doesn't really explain or justify the price disparity"...Festool really don't have to explain or justify their prices, do they.

Rob

Originally Posted by Enfield Guy

A bit harsh and narrow minded in my view.

I own a fair amount of power and hand tools including some Festool gear. I buy all of my power tools locally, rarely even from interstate. I have a view of "shop local - think Global". I put money in their pocket and I might get a bit back in mine in return. As far as prices are concerned, I have been able in the past to negotiate better prices than are advertised or price ticketed, even with Festool. With consumables I can generally get prices which are commensurate with what I would pay had I shopped overseas including the shipping. If not the difference has been somewhat negligible given the time it takes to recieve an item purchased from some other far flung land.

It really just comes down to a proper and measured cost benefit analysis.

At the end of the day you need to make the decision that you feel is right for you, but you do need to assess all of the purchasing criteria.

Cheers

That works for folks like you have ongoing purchase with retail shops that you develop said relationship with. For weekend hobbiests etc like myself, that's a long engagement I tend not to have and lastly you hitting them up for a discount is the same as what i'm doing.. you're taking food out of their mouth remember.. if you stand behind your moral stance then you'd not ask for said discount and pay for retail as they clearly need that % in order to stop the said business from going under.

So now I walk into the same store will they give me the same % off they gave you without me prompting them? no. So it's not about taking food out of their mouths its now about how you are willing to suck up to the said retailers via "networking a relationship" in order to get a saving.

My mouse is the relationship conduit for this savings, i click it and it tends to give me rewards much more better than months of ongoing purchases.

Thats the generational switch you're missing here and as long as companies continue to use Australia as their personal % ATM machine, this is the outcome they face. It's why Meyers, Harvey Norman etc are all hitting panic stations and doubling down on Internet commerce.

Originally Posted by LGS

You are correct, Fred in saying that Festool appear to be gouging, as this is only an opinion.
But the thing I don't get is that this "This is a free market economy, I can buy where I like" fails to take into account Festool's right to sell for what they want to. No-one says they have to sell at a price you find palatable. Simply, if you don't like the price b---er off. And as an extension of that right to sell under their own conditions, they are quite within their rights to prevent overseas agencies selling their product in another market.
As for the electrically unsafe thing, if the tools from the UK do not have attached to them approval for operation in Australian "conditions", then they will be rejected for claims on the grounds that they do not meet standards. Whether there is a discrepancy between regulations in the UK and Australia or whether they only kill Australians selectively is irrelevant in the eyes of insurers and repair shops.

And as for "Doesn't really explain or justify the price disparity"...Festool really don't have to explain or justify their prices, do they.

Rob

Appear? ...you really want to double down on Economics 101 and how their price margins in comparison to other countries just don't mathematically add up seriously take a calculator out.

Festool choose to increase the price fine, I choose to buy over seas or seek alternative channels of delivery. That wasn't a question of "should i" it was a question of "what tips do you have for it".. see the commitment to buy is made, the commitment to ignore local retailers to go overseas is made.. why people are arguing morality clauses for this is a bit of a "put down the Festool Koolaid and ease the hell up" moment for me.

Like i said, I'm aware of the warranty etc catch to buying offshore.. but for a weekend warrior like myself who doesn't have to have the tools tagged for trade reasons etc this all means zilch to my needs. Furthermore to get electrocuted in a modern home these days is pretty damn hard unless you decide to crack open a hole in the wall and bite down on wires with your mouth?

As for a brand not justifying their prices? ... how much of that festool koolaid are you drinking? ... EVERY SINGLE BRAND has to do that daily, monthly and more often than you clearly realise. Its' called marketing and community evangelism...why else do you think brands show up at retail expos / conferences ...to high five you?... no its to provide you 1:1 communication with the brand.

Festools response? .... <See local retailer who has probably 2% more information than you do right now> ..