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Thread: Festool Market Strategy
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21st October 2018, 09:44 PM #46GOLD MEMBER
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I can’t understand why it concerns you, a company makes/sell a product and chooses how much they are prepared to sell it for.
We live in a free country, how dare anyone try and tell them they can’t do that, likewise how many they sell of this or that is nobody else’s business either.
As far as making a decision to buy a particular item they have actually made it easier for you. You don’t have to worry about shopping around for a better price or if it’s going to be on sale next week etc.
All you have to decide is if you like the product and are prepared to pay for it accordingly or choose another manufacturers product.
It it is pretty simple, there is no need for govt intervention, people will vote with their wallet and the company will either sink or swim.
It is good to have the choice of these type of companies in the market place, look at what has happened to the other big German brand names with their quality as a result of operating on price point.
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21st October 2018 09:44 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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21st October 2018, 10:51 PM #47
Is it possible you might be taking commentary from another well known Festool specific forum, where there are or were issues with the 120V Kapex motors that proved to be less reliable than one would hope?
I can only relate my personal impression and knowledge from what I have seen, but I have seen few, if any complaints along the same lines for the 240V Kapex. I will say I do own one, and it's a pure joy to use, and very accurate. I will also add that I have used few other SCMS's, and bought the Festool (as I have with a number of their other tools) as I've had enough of this "race to the bottom" in making things as cheaply as possible to gain a price advantage in the market.
I'd rather buy once, know the manufacturer will be there tomorrow to back the unit I bought, and get quality - but then, that's just my view on things. Others may choose to disagree, and that too is fine - it's why a free market can supply and satisfy both ends of the spectrum
I will say right now, I respect your point of view, and to an extent, I agree with you.
The challenge is differentiating the good and the bad from certain geographical sources - often the good stuff is only revealed years after purchase when it's still working, at which time it's far too late to buy said item as it's long removed from market.
I would also counter your thinking on geographical origin with the following point of view - I would think that a factory worker somewhere in Asia, likely on minimum wage and potentially more rudimentary working conditions is not going to put the same level of care and attention to detail into something as a reasonably paid factory worker in a European country, where the company culture revolves around quality merchandise. On that basis, one should expect better or worse products in general given the geographical source of those items.
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22nd October 2018, 02:15 AM #48GOLD MEMBER
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t
I am just doing the devil's advocate bit. i think that Festool have every right to do what they want with pricing and I also think that dealers really like it but at the same time I don't think is good value which is a different thing to quality and innovation. My impression from these type of threads is most of those complaining haven't got the money to buy Festool anyway. Festool do top quality tools, perhaps not as good as Mafelle but I am not buying because I don't think they are good value for the dollar spent which is another argument altogether.CHRIS
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22nd October 2018, 03:19 AM #49
according to the ACCC press release, the ACCC have accepted Festool Australia's argument that Festool's dealer network deserves protection from "free riders" in the premium tool market place.
In this context, a "free rider" is a retailer who invests nothing in sales support or market development -- relying on other retailers to provide these functions -- and thereby profits from the effort of others. In the short term "free riders" are a boon for individual consumers -- you can buy something at 20 to 30% less than what is being charged by full service retailers -- in the long term it can be very detrimental.
I didn't intend this to be an Economics 101 treatise, but I'm told free riding is a problem in many industries -- why take on and train an unskilled employee when your competitor down the road will just poach them once they have been trained at your expense.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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22nd October 2018, 03:18 PM #50
One reason why I prefer to buy local ... so long as the extra cost is not exorbitant (as with my jigaw that I mentioned). Plus, I actually like to support local businesses (so I avoid Bunnings - {grins} - they are not local to me plus they are a corporate s*&^%$).
@ Chris Parks: Bosch Blue is not made in China. I have a shipload of them, some made in Germany, some made in Mexico, some in Malaysia, some Switzerland; none in China.
I've 3 batteries and, maybe, 6 'skins' plus three mains powered gadgets (ROS, track saw, router). No China.
Off topic aside: at one stage some 10 years ago Bosch started making washing machines in China. We got one, our friend got one. We didn't know about the origin at the time, until we received them. Crap plastic, buttons broke, handle broke, practically out of the box. Rust after a few months. A year later I noticed that the same washing machines were no longer made in China, but in Mexico .... Bosch wised up it seems.
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22nd October 2018, 05:21 PM #51
...but THIS Mittelstand is relevant to WHOLESALE pricing, not the restricted inability of the retailer to reduce the retail price!
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22nd October 2018, 05:30 PM #52
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22nd October 2018, 08:12 PM #53GOLD MEMBER
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22nd October 2018, 08:40 PM #54GOLD MEMBER
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Yeah, this is what I heard/have seen, as well. All of my Bosch blue are Germany, Switzerland and a couple from Malaysia. All have done very well and some have been through a lot and are holding up great. I was worried when I saw Bosch blue starting to be sold in Bunnies - figured they would pressure them to cut cost (and quality) etc.
Cheers, Dom
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22nd October 2018, 10:37 PM #55the tool specialists
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We thought it was going to be a major issue when first announced. To be honest I could count the complaints to the ruling that didn’t buy on one hand. It was & still isn’t easy work for festool, there is a lot of work in the background to be compliant which costs them a lot to keep a stable market for the end user. Whilst the pricing has been fixed to some extent the offers & added bonuses have never been to the level they are today & continue to be. I know some would still not be happy but from our side & customers we have been dealing with it seems to be fine😥
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23rd October 2018, 03:29 AM #56
Can only comment re the Festool dealer I used to patronise on Sydney's Northern Beaches. (Northern Abrasives & Tools at Brookvale)
Apart from consumables, my tool purchases would have been a once every three or four years, but the customer focused service Fubar describes was my experience every time I went to the store -- even if I was only "kicking tires"regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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23rd October 2018, 04:54 AM #57GOLD MEMBER
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I own four Festool tools (actually three Festool and one Festo). For three of them I walked into the dealer and said “I’ll take one of those please”. The fourth was an online purchase. I don’t get the argument about superior pre-sale service. I do all my research online. That way I know it’s unbiased.
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23rd October 2018, 09:55 AM #58SENIOR MEMBER
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I've used the same 2 dealers over the past 30 odd years of ownership, apart from a couple of private imports in 1984 from the UK & the odd second hand purchase. Since both dealers were "fired" a couple of years ago (incidentally immediately subsequent to the ACCC's Resale Price Maintenance ruling), I'll never buy another. Anywhere, anytime, ever.
One showed me the short, curt, callous letter of dismissal he'd received. Effective immediately. No warning, no timeframe of disengagement, no offers of return & refunding redundant stocks. No "thank you for the past 30 odd years of service", no "what can we do to work together to march hand-in-hand toward the brave new world of the future". I was appalled.
The concept of Mittelstand cuts all ways, in all directions of the supply, manufacture, distribution, marketing, community and end-user matrix. It's about corporate responsibility, cooperation, loyalty & trust, which simply doesn't apply here. It certainly doesn't represent corporate sociopathy. To me, and for me, this smacks of "The Final Solution". Given that any one individual segment of a supply chain (including me as an end-user) by default represents all, there's just no place in my workshop any more for the product of Germany's shame.Sycophant to nobody!
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23rd October 2018, 10:44 AM #59
Yes, of course you could count on one hand the number of complaints. People could not be bothered wasting their time, knowing that nothing would happen.
Festool are NOT there to keep the market stable for the END USER! They are there for FESTOOL!!
I have no problem with the price fixing if they can get away with it good luck to them. The problem I have is with the enormous price.
I have no doubt that Festool products are superb in every way except price. Festool are catering for the "elite" woodworker that has the money to spend and does not need to consider prices. Agian good luck to Festool for capturing a market.
To buy a modified biscuit joiner AKA the domino, I need to pay three to five times the price of a decent biscuit joiner, why? The biggest domino "kit" is about seven times the price of a capable biscuit joiner.
Again, good luck to them for being able to do so!
I think Festool have deprived themselves from a much larger market by having such high prices, that in my opinion cannot be justified by their tools, even though they are good.
Yes, I would like to possess some Festool products, *IF* I could justify the price, but my "cheapy" Makita brushless tools work just as well at a fraction of the price and my Makita biscuit joiner still does a fantastic job.
If Festool has to do "a lot of work in the background" then why would they bother if not for the high profit margins they reap?
As I said before I have nothing against Festool other than their ridiculously high prices.
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23rd October 2018, 10:54 AM #60
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