Thread: Festool router bits...are people out of their minds??

Originally Posted by Belstaff1464

Well....I gave a local retailer the opportunity but they're "unable to compete at this time". So much for policies. I'd say it's tantamount to false advertising. And all of a sudden they're suddenly out of stock of both items. Funny that. Looks like it's back to online shopping for me. It's hard to fathom that it's cheaper to get the items from France but there you go.

That accusation is a bit harsh.

Technically what you are engaged in is "arbitrage" based on the relative exchange rates over time between the Canadian/ US dollar and GBP and the Australian dollar, plus the Euro. The recent devaluation of the GBP has altered the relative price of some items.

Believe it or not, back when the Australian dollar was retreating from near parity with the US dollar, the cheapest place to buy a Lie Nielsen plane was actually from Henry Eckert in Adelaide. Henry's prices reflected stock purchased at around $1 AUD = $1 USD, but following the fall in the AUD, tools shipped from the US were suddenly 10 to 15% more expensive than ones purchased in Australia.

I strongly suspect that the current Axminster GBP pricing, which by report is significantly less than dealing direct with Lee Valley in North America, reflects a similar situation, and will only last until Axminister replaces current stock.

Originally Posted by ian

That accusation is a bit harsh.

Technically what you are engaged in is "arbitrage" based on the relative exchange rates over time between the Canadian/ US dollar and GBP and the Australian dollar, plus the Euro. The recent devaluation of the GBP has altered the relative price of some items.

Believe it or not, back when the Australian dollar was retreating from near parity with the US dollar, the cheapest place to buy a Lie Nielsen plane was actually from Henry Eckert in Adelaide. Henry's prices reflected stock purchased at around $1 AUD = $1 USD, but following the fall in the AUD, tools shipped from the US were suddenly 10 to 15% more expensive than ones purchased in Australia.

I strongly suspect that the current Axminster GBP pricing, which by report is significantly less than dealing direct with Lee Valley in North America, reflects a similar situation, and will only last until Axminister replaces current stock.

No, I don't think it is. The retailer is trumpeting the fact that they will "match ANY legitimate" import quote which includes shipping. I presented them said quote and they somply failed to match it. They have not lived up to their advertised claim. The Big Green Shed has a similar policy, and if they ever fail to follow through, they can be reported to the ACCC.

And to top it off, they make a lame excuse by saying both items are suddenly out of stock even though on their website it still clearly state they're in stock. I've replied back asking if they have stock of the LH version of the plane and the other grains and sizes of the plane. Their website both say they're in stock. Let's see what they say. They may not even reply.

I suggest that it would be very easy to show that a sudden change in relative exchange rates -- as has recently effected the USD/GBP and GBP/AUD -- does not qualify as a "legitimate" import quote.

The recent prices people are mentioning for Lee Valley tools from Axminister and other UK retailers are a temporary aberration (due to exchange rates) -- neither Rob Lee nor Tom Lie Nielsen have ever been accused of the practices that would make those UK prices a long term phenomena.

I'm not sure how you can argue that fluctuations in the exchange rates affect the "legitimacy" of the quotation I got. The quotation has not been fabricated or manipulated and is therefore legitimate.

Exchange rates are a fact of trading in a world wide market. If the retailer cannot or is unwilling to match the quote, then they should not have that policy in the first place or at the very reast have an asterisk after it with suitable qualifiers (e.g. only if the exchange is favorable or only if we don't make aloss). I maintain that to have such a policy is at the very least an example of false advertising. At worst, it reflects that the retailer does not stand by their word or policy and is therefore without honour. You would think a retailer traing under its family name, i.e. Eckert, would care more about its reputation. They probably spend money on advertising to raise their brand awareness, yet are seemingly unwilling to wear a loss (assuming that they would be incurring a loss which is doubtful) to protect that same brand. But it's their choice in the end how they want to conduct their business. I'll vote with my wallet.

And to be clear, I have no grief with Rob Lee or Tom Lie Nielsen. They're not the one that has made the promise to match ANY legitimate import quotes.

Although there certainly is a problem with the price match guarantee not being fulfilled. At the end of the day, you can just order from overseas, pay the exact same amount for the products and "maybe" the shipping will take longer, but with so many 3rd parties involved there is no guarantee. There is no point is trying to catch them out with a LH version, you already know they don't follow through on their word. Report them if you must, though I would just advise them that their price match guarantee is a policy thought up by a child and should be abandoned immediately. Or better yet, advise them that the wording of their policy should be changed from "we will" to "we will try". Buying from a local supplier when you know they will probably not make a wages on the deal is the kind of support business don't need.

Originally Posted by Kuffy

Although there certainly is a problem with the price match guarantee not being fulfilled. At the end of the day, you can just order from overseas, pay the exact same amount for the products and "maybe" the shipping will take longer, but with so many 3rd parties involved there is no guarantee. There is no point is trying to catch them out with a LH version, you already know they don't follow through on their word. Report them if you must, though I would just advise them that their price match guarantee is a policy thought up by a child and should be abandoned immediately. Or better yet, advise them that the wording of their policy should be changed from "we will" to "we will try". Buying from a local supplier when you know they will probably not make a wages on the deal is the kind of support business don't need.

Yep, that's exactly what I'll be doing. I wasn't 100% certain that the reason they weren't able to compete was because they were gejuinely out of stock of both items. Their non-response confirms my suspicion that it's a business decision and not because of availability. And I would have been happy to go ahead with the purchase if they price matched with the LH version and another size or grain of the rasp.

OK everyone... can we try and drag this back on topic please?

Festool router bits: are they worth it?

Sorry, my bad.

To answer your question, no, they're not worth it unless you're looking at one that's a unique size or profile. As for the standard bits, there are more affordable bits available of the same quality.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

OK everyone... can we try and drag this back on topic please?

Festool router bits: are they worth it?

it depends

on the type and quality (micro structure) of the carbide, which in theory affects sharpness and edge retention -- the result or otherwise should be evident with less gum build up, less burning, crisper profiles. But comparisons will be tricky because, as I understand it, the type of carbide and it's cutting performance is somewhat dependent on material being profiled.

on how much carbide there is -- which relates to the number of times the bit can be sharpened.

on the quality of the bearing, if there is one.

on how you cost your time. If the business you work for has a charge out rate of $100 per hour, then a Festool bit would pay for itself if it lasts about 30 mins longer than the equivalent Carb-I-tool bit, or reduces the finish sanding by a measurable amount, or can be resharpened more times.

if you need a bit with an 8 or 12 mm shank there may be little other choice.


I may be imagining it, but I think the larger bits designed for CNC work (shanks > 1/4") are more expensive that "standard" router bits of the same size. If this is so it says something about either the marketing, or the production cost.

We mainly use standard 1/2" profile bits in our CNC. Once you go to large/specialty bits you're on 16/20/25mm shanks and they get expensive because a) there's simply more material in each bit and b) larger bits need to be more precisely balanced, especially as even some 80+mm diameter bits are still rated for 18k rpm

Check out Veritas/Lee Valley to the source = Canada.
Our dollar is in the toilet, might be even more economical than paying Axminster's markup.

I'm sure Festo's router bits are great. Most of their gear is. I'm also quite confident they're expensive. ALL of their gear (even the cheap stuff ) is.

But.... they'll be in metric sizes; 6, 8 & 12mm shanks. Whilst there's probably some merit in 8mm bits, there's no justification at all currently in the English speaking world to changeover to the other 2 metric sizes.

As previously mentioned, an 8mm bit's shank is less likely to flex, especially in longer length bits. Maybe there's some benefit in using 8mm bits for some of the greater plunges too, like for some of the bigger heavier duty dovetail jigs etc. too. I use a baby Elu & midsize DeWalt with my Trend/Akeda jig, quite happily with 1/4" bits, the only ones that fit the jig. I have an 8mm collet also for the Elu, to date unused, and 1/2" collets for the DeWalt, which are too big for the jig's guide bush.

But if you must go all metric then do just that. Don't EVER mix bit shanks & collets up. To do so is to damage your bits or collet at best, and risk severe injury at worst. I simply wouldn't have any metric bits (other than 8mm, which I currently haven't) as the risk of damage or injury is just too great.

Plus there's a seemingly infinite variety of imperial bits sourced from a large number of places in a comprehensive range of price and quality levels for every imaginable current need. In fact I think that those poor mugs currently struggling with limited ranges of metric shanked bits must be (justifiably) envious of our wide range of imperial choices.

Don't for a moment think that Festo make router bits. I'm quite confident they don't, just like much of their motor, metallurgical, aluminium extrusion & other difficult or expensive work will be outsourced to both more specialised, skilled & most importantly cheaper manufactories & labour forces both within Germany, eastern Europe and the far East.

But just because they're possibly foreign made, don't assume they're junk either. I've never heard so much as a whiff of complaint about Festo bits. Dominoes, yes, but they're quite another kettle of fish. Then again, I've never actually heard of anybody actually using any either.... Not surprising considering their only market is limited to Continental Europe.

Lee Valley have a large range of 8mm bits - just about anything in their 1/4" range is duplicated in 8mm. So far all my router bits from Lee Valley have been good quality and I haven't worn any out yet. They also have reducer sleeves in Imperial and Metric to downsize you collet - not wonderful for super precision work but great when you need to use a cheap 1/4" bit (or even 8mm) and can't find the 1/4" collet for your table router which has a 1/2" or 12mm installed.

Originally Posted by Ratbag

there's a seemingly infinite variety of imperial bits sourced from a large number of places in a comprehensive range of price and quality levels for every imaginable current need. In fact I think that those poor mugs currently struggling with limited ranges of metric shanked bits must be (justifiably) envious of our wide range of imperial choices.

I'm not sure that this is so.

A quick browse through the CMT toolling catalogue (368 pages) suggests that most CMT profiles and straight bits are available in the shank sizes 6.0, 6.35, 8.0, 12.0 and 12.7, with some bits also available with 9.52 and 10.0 mm shanks.