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  1. #1
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    Question When is a box a BANDSAWN BOX

    "When is a box a BANDSAWN BOX?"
    What is the criteria to define a box as a bandsawn box? Must the box have at least one draw that has been cut/shaped from the blank by using a bandsaw. Must the bandsaw be used to cut the outline shape of the "box". If a bandsaw is used to cut any of the material then is it a bandsawn box.

    A number of forumites have attended classes conducted by Alan Williams and I consider that the freeflowing shapes and designs that he creates, using a bandsaw, are true bandsawn boxes. For those that are not familiar with Alan Williams' work, they are the type of box that Tony Ward - Sculptured Box designs and makes. I am not suggesting that Tony is using Alan's designs, just that they use similar creative techniques, however Tony does include a larger element of carving into his work.

    Sorry to drag you into this Tony but we have discussed this question without resolution .

    In another thread Sprog has explained how a bandsaw is used by Beth Ireland (in her DVD Turning OUtside the Box) to cut a U shape out of a blank. She then used a lathe to turn the external shape and lid. There is no draw and, apparently, if a treasured item was placed inside the "box" then the box would have to be tipped up to recover that item. The finished item is however refered to, in advertising material, as a bandsaw box.

    On the cover of Donna Menke's book "The Ultimate Band Saw Box Book" there is a lovely box which has a draw and (what I assume to be) a hinged lid. It would however appear that the blank has been cut into a number of "straight" sections which have then been glued back to form the bandsaw box. Six months ago I cut out a box using a similar technique. The cutting was done on a bandsaw and, in all honesty, that box was more difficult to make - because of the correct lining up of joints etc. - than a freeflowing box. I am proud of the finished product, however I only ever considered that it was a box made by using a bandsaw and not a bandsawn box.

    If I use a bandsaw to cut timber, then use a Givkins Dovetail Jig to cut the dovetail joints with a router, am I making a bandsawn box? I don't think so, but where is the line to be drawn? Or does it really matter and should any box created using a bandsaw be classified as a bandsawn box?

    I leave the question open for discussion - what makes a box a BANDSAWN BOX?
    John H
    Why do I never seem to cut "too long"?

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  3. #2
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    Not trying to be argumentative but are you not splitting hairs?

    If it is a box and you have used a bandsaw on parts of it then I think it is a bandsaw box, if you have used nothing but a bandsaw then it is a bandsaw box. So what are we discussing again? I forgot....

    Pete
    If you are never in over your head how do you know how tall you are?

  4. #3
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    Talking Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
    Not trying to be argumentative but are you not splitting hairs?

    If it is a box and you have used a bandsaw on parts of it then I think it is a bandsaw box, if you have used nothing but a bandsaw then it is a bandsaw box. So what are we discussing again? I forgot....

    Pete
    Pete that is exactly why I raised the topic, to get some discussion.

    Am I being too pedantic. I don't think so. The book "Building Beautiful Boxes with your Band Saw" by Lois Keener Ventura is about the design and creation of freeflowing boxes. The type that I personally classify as bandsawn boxes.

    On the other hand, the Beth Ireland DVD and the Donna Menke book do not appear to be about the same type of creation.

    The dilema arises if I want to purchase a book or DVD that contains the words Bandsaw Box in the title or advertising blurb. Is it a book about a freeflowing style, or is it another book about the making of boxes generally.
    John H
    Why do I never seem to cut "too long"?

  5. #4
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    I feel similarly about some turned items. eg. heavily carved items wherein the lathe was just an intermediary step.

    IMHO, it should refer to the most predominantly used technique in the creation of the object. Otherwise we'd have allegedly bandsawn fret-work ('cos the blank had been ripped on a bandsaw) and other ridiculous claims.
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

    - Andy Mc

  6. #5
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    No comment !
    p.t.c

  7. #6
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    Smile

    This is a subject very near and dear to my heart. We have discussed this topic on the Yahoo! bandsawboxes group also. You are right that the cover box was cut apart and reassembled- using the band saw. And I consider that to be one of the techniques for making band saw boxes. It is, as you said, not the easiest technique.
    In my humble opinion, there are 6 major classifications of band saw box making:
    1. General lift off lids with integral lid liners. Includes divided interiors and most of the slab constructions.
    2. Nested boxes. Constructed the same as above, but with multiple boxes made from the resulting cores.
    3. Puzzle boxes made with sliding tops that act as keyways, and removable keys that function as locks.
    4. Pivoting hinge boxes with one or more pivoting lid sections.
    5. Hinged boxes constructed with conventional hinges and mini barrel hinges. Also includes hidden hinges that open conventionally on brass rod.
    6. Drawered boxes, like those by Lois Keener Ventura. this includes the Critter boxes like the Armadillo Box and the Snail Box.
    If anyone knows of any other techniques- please let me know.
    To me, if you are using a table saw or a router to generate your shape it is not a band saw box, but just a box made with a band saw. I use a planer and joiner when laminating, but I seldom laminate.
    Thanks,
    Donna Menke

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxter View Post

    Am I being too pedantic. I don't think so. The book "Building Beautiful Boxes with your Band Saw" by Lois Keener Ventura is about the design and creation of free flowing boxes. The type that I personally classify as bandsawn boxes.
    All the boxes in this book require some form of sanding to create the free flowing designs. Couldn't these boxes then be better described as sanded boxes rather than bandsawn boxes as the final shape is achieved by some considerable amount of sanding?

    Growing old is much better than the alternative!

  9. #8
    ss_11000 is offline You've got to risk it to get the biscuit
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    i thought you could only use the bandsaw to make one. if you use any thing else, it would just be a box.
    sanders IMO dont count because you sand the majority of your jobs, a bit of power and a machine to do it is just makin the process faster.

    thats my opinion anyway.
    S T I R L O

  10. #9
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    Where's Tony's comments.?
    I thought a box had a lid ?
    p.t.c

  11. #10
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    what is a bandsawn box ~ a box which can be made solely by the use of a bandsaw.

    For example, this definition includes a dovetail or fingerjoint box made with a bandsaw, but does not include those great looking boxes made with the assistance of the Gifkins jig, or similar devices.

    Bandsawn boxes will always remain unique, an expression of the maker's creative skill. Box making without the usual rules.
    Tony Ward
    Now a power carver and living the dream.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprog View Post
    All the boxes in this book require some form of sanding to create the free flowing designs. Couldn't these boxes then be better described as sanded boxes rather than bandsawn boxes as the final shape is achieved by some considerable amount of sanding?
    Sprog

    I agree with your comment about the amount of sanding. Unless you've made more than a couple of bandsawn boxes, you really don't appreciate the amount of sanding, particularly when making a multi dimensioned box.

    Straighted sided boxes maybe finished with a variety motorised sanding machines, but real character and appearance is only achieved by hand sanding. It is that finish which differentiates a number of so called bandsawn boxes.

    Unfortunately many people do not appreciate the journey, that is the amount of personal time and effort devoted to making a bandsawn box, and no I don't have an answer,
    Tony Ward
    Now a power carver and living the dream.

  13. #12
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    I agree- you just about cannot make a band saw box without a belt sander. 'Band saw/sander boxes' sounds awkward though, so we may as well stick with 'band saw box'.
    A journey- absolutely. These are works of art more than containers. Oh, it is nice that they can contain things, but that is secondary. Except for my grown son (the financial analyst) who wanted an Armadillo Box with the capacity to fit in a roll of dollars. He got it.
    Using a band saw to cut 'normal joints' for a square box doesn't make it a band saw box, imho. Then again, that puts my cut apart and reassembled boxes out of that category too. Oh well, I guess Tony is correct- it is a field without rules.
    Whereas I absolutely love and admire the free-flowing designs that Tony and others produce, it is just not my style. Maybe I lack imagination, but my Butterfly Box looks like a butterfly and my Snail Box looks like a snail. Maybe it is my training as a draftsman/scientific illustrator that makes me want to make representational art. (Or maybe it was my nature that sent me into those fields of study?) In any case- there is room in the world of band saw making for both kinds of design/art.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ss_11000 View Post
    i thought you could only use the bandsaw to make one. if you use any thing else, it would just be a box.
    sanders IMO dont count because you sand the majority of your jobs, a bit of power and a machine to do it is just makin the process faster.

    thats my opinion anyway.
    i was gonna say exactly the same thing. cessnockians r so alike.
    meansy.KCOR tm

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by donpbk View Post
    We have discussed this topic on the Yahoo! bandsawboxes group also.
    Donna I have unsuccesfully searched for this discussion. Can you help with a link please .

    On the subject of sanding, the sanding is normally not done to achieve a design but to fine finish the piece, although I do accept that some shaping can be done by mechanical sanding. Overall, I think Stirlo hit it on the head. All woodworking requires sanding and how you do it is not the point..
    John H
    Why do I never seem to cut "too long"?

  16. #15
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    Well Baxter, after slogging through a million or two postings I found something about Shaker Boxes being maybe band saw boxes around post #3123. Not as good a discussion as I remember- oh yeah- that is me just flapping my lips- again. There are probably more, but finding a keyword to search on in a group dedicated to band saw boxes is mighty hard. The conversation here was better anyhow.
    Donna

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