Thread: Alternative linisher
2nd Apr 2013, 08:28 PM #1
It looks like it may be vale Multitool. I sincerely hope not but it is beginning to look that way.
In the post that dealt with the Multitool Ray G said "by the time you buy an 8" bench grinder and then the multi-tool attachment you are up around the cost of a dedicated linisher anyway." Take it a step further.Make one.
I for one one favor the relative dimensions of the Multitool. I have had a rush of excrement to the brain and thought why not build one dedicated belt grinder with those dimensions.
I was curious to know how many of the forums contributors have considered, or are now considering building one .
Further to that I though it may be beneficial ,if enough people could decide on what they would like to build one, it may be worth while having a dig around to find what local resources could be found and applied against finding bits and pieces for a economy model kit.
By economy I mean finding basic components that could be substituted for linisher dedicated components . For example the drive drum, if thatís the term would cost dollars to source off shore but what about using a rubber /polymer coated 50mm wide trolley wheel and similar for the idler at other end. Suitably machined and with correct bearings,I see a suitable substitute there
The motor, maybe a washing machine motor or something similar.
Too quick for timber ? What about a reduction pulley system if a cheap substitute can be found.
Ok ,I hear you say, but what about the Multitool $200 plus the grinder motor say
$150 -$200. I think that $400 would go close to buying the components.
What belt dimensions 50mm or 100
Drive drum dimension 160. 200 ?
Motor RPM watts 2850rpm / 750W or bigger
Some pics to get the ball rolling
I suspect there are many out there that intend buying or making one in the future.
Ideas ,replies, comments suggestions please.Let's kick some ideas around and see what is there at the end.
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2nd Apr 2013, 09:24 PM #2
I turfed my cheap multitool copy, and built this:
The inspiration came from here: Letís make a Grinder
Mines running with 1520x50 belts at the moment, because they're in stock at my local industrial supplies, but the beauty of the design is that I can use up to about a 2 metre belt - whatever is available, in other words!
I had pretty much all the materials I needed, although I had to buy a short bit of suitably sized aluminium for the drive wheel, and for the tooling arms. I had to buy the bearings as well, I don't have stashes of truly useful stuff unfortunately. Also had to buy the motor (thanks Azzrock), which is actually a monstrous old 3hp three phase motor that someone put a capacitor on to make it run single phase. Fine by me, it was cheap enough, and eventually I'll probably put a VFD on it for variable speed, and to gain back the lost hp from the single phase 'conversion', but as it stands, I can't stall it. If I try, the piece of metal just gets rapidly shorter.
Needs some roundtuits spent on it, the stand I want to box in and add shelves, since the space under it is wasted, and I'd like to put a cover to catch the sparks out the back. Also like to make another tooling arm or two, perhaps one with a rubber coated contact wheel (pallet jack castor perhaps) similar to the Multitool. The aluminium pulleys are a little harsh to use for serious metal removal.
I've also added a catch tray under the front since this photo, stops the majority of the grit ending up on the floor.
2nd Apr 2013, 09:57 PM #3
Very nice J&H.
Although i own 2 good multitools, i do want to make a 3 wheel type linisher, like the radius master. I have a 3hp 3ph 2880 rpm motor set aside, and i was going to use one of my multitools for parts. The only thing i havn't looked into is different sized contact wheels.1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
3rd Apr 2013, 12:23 AM #4
Hi Ewan, Grahame, J&H and all,
The radius master, is nice, there's a good video which shows some of the configurations Radius Master Demo With Ben Orford - YouTube
The traditional 3 wheel would have to be the bader style. Stephen Bader & Co., Inc. - Manufacturer of quality belt grinders, polishing and finishing equipment
Here's a review of various knife type grinders. https://sites.google.com/site/vorpal...ues-3/grinders
A number of design ideas for belt grinders. CNCCookbook: Belt Grinder Ideas
Perhaps leaning towards something that can be laser cut out of sheet and welded, perhaps using off the shelf radius wheels and rubber wheels.
Alternatively an interesting project, would be to re-design something along the multi-tool concept...
3rd Apr 2013, 01:34 AM #5
There is a never ending list of home made linisher/belt grinders on Google And Youtube
3rd Apr 2013, 08:20 AM #6Diamond Member
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If you want a good cheap source for the drive and idler rollers I would recommend the two rollers out of an old powered treadmill.
The front one is usually rubber coated, and you get ball bearings, shafts, bearing housings etc for gratis.
The diameter is 60 mm on the ones I have put aside.
You can easily cut them to any length and get multiple wheels out of them.
Some are steel with knock in alloy bearing housings and some are all alloy (thick), allowing you to easily machine additional bearing mounts as required.
3rd Apr 2013, 08:54 AM #7
I agree with Ray, the Radius Master is a very nice bit of kit, especially the RM 48. The attraction of the Multitool is that it fits on the end of a standard bench grinder. If going down the Multitool path most people either have a grinder already, can purchase one cheaply, or don't want to take up the room that a dedicated machine would occupy as the other end of the grinder can be left with the standard wheel. It's a simple turnkey solution. While I do have large grinders, I've never seen the grinder even strain slightly when driving a Multitool so I think the HP argument is a complete nonsense personally.
However, I've found the Multitool design has a number of limitations in use. I think it's also very expensive for what it is, and the quality* (or lack of with recent versions). I was going to go to the trouble of building one I definitely wouldn't copy a Multitool. I can't see any reason why something similar to the Radius Master couldn't be designed to go on the end of a standard grinder. There are many designs available out there already that are very similar, especially in the knife making forums etc, which is typically where my searches have led me in the past.
* After a previous thread discussing runout on the Multitool I checked mine, and sure enough there was runout. Not as bad as some have reported, hence why I didn't really notice until it was mentioned, but enough that I will probably remove it and rebore/bush it to run concentric. Not something that I should need to do.
3rd Apr 2013, 09:21 AM #8
I think its a real shame that the Multitool branded linisher is becoming/has too expensive to buy. Being an Australian invention (as far as I know) its a shame that they have gone off shore to make the bits. I have had one on my GMF 8" grinder for more than 20 years. I use it on steel parts after they are cut on a drop saw and I also use it to sand down timber as well.
For me the design is good (or maybe I have learned to work around its limitations). It is small enough to usually get into tight spots when cleaning some up but lacks a little if cleaning something large.
It will be interesting watching the progress of this thread to see where it ends upJust do it!
Kind regards Rod
3rd Apr 2013, 10:45 AM #9
3rd Apr 2013, 10:47 AM #10Mechanical Butcher
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I think the Radius Master was designed by a Mr Price, of Price-Ackling MultiTool fame.
It's expensive, but Australian made (still, I hope) and looks high quality. In particular, the tracking seems to be amazingly accurate and stable. My MultiTool attachment is rather crude in this area. I wonder how the RM achieves this steady tracking?
3rd Apr 2013, 08:45 PM #11
I see you have your eye on my mobile grinding centre, I have added two additional grinding bars since those photos were taken, one with a small diameter wheel for grinding small tubing and the other one with a horizontal table with a solid back rest for general work. Both work as required. I use the machine almost daily and would be lost without it. It is a great project to build and powerful enough to do some serious grinding.
3rd Apr 2013, 09:18 PM #12
4th Apr 2013, 08:09 AM #13
I'll post a picture or 2 once it's done. The (non-oscillating) vertical spindle drum sander I built the other week has already paid for itself at least twice over in aggravation reduction sanding inside radii. I used a 1/2HP 3 phase motor to drive it. Mind you the quality of the pneumatic drum from Carbatec leaves a lot to be desired in terms of roundness & parallelism.
4th Apr 2013, 02:39 PM #14
5th Apr 2013, 07:12 PM #15
I too, am taken by your design. It got the size of footprint I favour -you know - space taken up on the workshop floor.
That's what I meant be the dimensions comment, not so much a blatant copy of the Multitool but rather the spacial thing.The volume or lack of it, that it takes up.
Motor and wheels are going to take up a the lions share of the budget. I was leaning towards ratting a treadmill at the recycle center for motor and other goodies.
I was watching a kid on a skateboard today,when I had a rush to the brain. The skateboard wheels, I reckon, would make for some decent belt grinder wheels.
I know the bearings would need to be the right ones for the revs the wheels will see..Whats the opinion on how the urethane material would hold up?
For the drive wheel I am considering, it may come off the treadmill roller.
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