Thread: APMT103504PDER inserts

Have you tried CTC?

Dave

Sorry eskimo I can't help as those numbers don't make any sense to me Which is a shame because I thought I had a handle on them after reading up on them over the last few days
A - parallelogram
P - 11 deg relief angle
M - tolerance
T - with partly cycindrical hole, 40-60 deg countersink
10 - ??
35 - ??
04 - 4.76mm thick?
P - 90 deg lead angle
D - 15 deg wiper edge clearance
E - honed cutting edge
R - right handed
What am I missing?
Stuart

Originally Posted by Dave J

Have you tried CTC?

Dave

yep..no he doesnt list them

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Sorry eskimo I can't help as those numbers don't make any sense to me Which is a shame because I thought I had a handle on them after reading up on them over the last few days
A - parallelogram
P - 11 deg relief angle
M - tolerance
T - with partly cycindrical hole, 40-60 deg countersink
10 - ??
35 - ??
04 - 4.76mm thick?
P - 90 deg lead angle
D - 15 deg wiper edge clearance
E - honed cutting edge
R - right handed
What am I missing?
Stuart

10 is for 10mm...i think
3.5 is supposed to be for ???

thats what I cant figure out Stuart...some sites show a differing size for a so called ISO standard...such as Kenewell etc etc..I'm not saying kennawel is wrong but where is the consistency in all of this if its (ISO) a standard.???

the sizes quoted on the H&F site for this insert doesnt match up with the Sumitomo sizes so I reckon they are PURPOSELY wrong to try and give us the thought they are only available form them...them refers to H&F???

Have a look at these APMT 103504PDER ACZ350 SUMITOMO INSERTS - eBay Cutting Tools Consumables, Metalworking Tooling, Manufacturing Metalworking, Business Industrial. (end time 09-Sep-10 04:17:29 AEST)

I had the same trouble finding some at a reasonable price. I bought one of those H&F milling kits then found out the inserts cost a fortune. The face miller along takes 5 or 6 inserts. After a lot of looking I found the item above. I ended up buying 20 of them and he sent them for $10 postage.

Looks like a special to me....

I have seen people told to buy the separate insert tooling from Hare and Forbes as the tips are industry standard, easy to replace etc. Going by this, I guess H&F tooling is not that standard, maybe it's to make you buy through them.

Dave

Is the insert 7/32 or 4.76 mm thick?
radius corners or wiper edge?

Originally Posted by wannabe

Have a look at these APMT 103504PDER ACZ350 SUMITOMO INSERTS - eBay Cutting Tools Consumables, Metalworking Tooling, Manufacturing Metalworking, Business Industrial. (end time 09-Sep-10 04:17:29 AEST)

I had the same trouble finding some at a reasonable price. I bought one of those H&F milling kits then found out the inserts cost a fortune. The face miller along takes 5 or 6 inserts. After a lot of looking I found the item above. I ended up buying 20 of them and he sent them for $10 postage.

Thanks Peter
also sent an email last night to Taiwan Tool Co and they can do them for US$49.00 plus postage.. bout the same...but dont know what make...as I am getting a couple arbors from them I might try them ....after my tool holders arrive...I am also going to get a end mill or something from them as I am interested to know why their model numbers of the indexable cutters and lathe tools are exactly the same as the manufacturer ie Marox, who supplies H&F..... I am thinking Marox Tooling from Taiwan may also supply Taiwan Tool Co because of this.

Anyhow, the stuff I ordered from Marox arrived last Monday, and it has all the same markings as the H&F end mill I have, except for the laser etched letters "TM" (which I think stands for Tool Master...?).

Dave...thats what I am thinking.....I would have thought the inserts I want would be an industry standard, but with only two suppliers Sumitomo and Nachi (as told by Carbide Depot) I may have been forced to go to H&F and pay their expensive pricing...I wont need to get much from them now ,as Taiwan Tool Co will have most of the tooling I may want albeit with the requirement of the Sumitomo inserts, but as I now know where to get the inserts from which also includes Peters ebay contact above, I'm a whole happier....buying kennewell, iscar etc tooling is just out of the question.

Stuart..they are going by Sumitomo a .394 x .25 with a thickness of .138..or going by me that works out to be 10mm x 6.35 with a thickness of 3.5mm
H&F web site say they are 9.75mm x 6.2mm with a thickness of 3.3mm
??? whats right????

RC I am thinking H&F are just trying to confuse us by quoting incorrect figures...or are they, as other makers who quote 1035 in their ISO sizing numbering are totally different sizes from Sumitomo's.

Ok I have a theory.
Looking at the picture here
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L059#
The top right and the bottom left corners look different.
Is it possible that one end is an 04(0.4 radius corner) and the other is a PD(90deg lead 15deg wiper clearance)? The drawing shows the radius on the wrong corner doesn't it?

Still leaves us with 10 and 35 to work out. My chart says "for shapes A, L and N use the length of the leading cutting edge(for inch, use increments of 1/4")"

10 is as close to 9.75 as you can get with ISO. Maybe if the length is specified directly you do that same with the thickness, 3.5mm again pretty rough.

I can't find a width for ISO parallelograms, maybe its a fixed relationship to the length?

Of course I could be reading a little to much into a less that perfect picture

Another thing I thought was funny while looking around is this.


https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=M530#
$275 and you're one insert short of being able to fill all the holders.

Still not much help.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Ok I have a theory.
Looking at the picture here
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L059#
The top right and the bottom left corners look different.
Is it possible that one end is an 04(0.4 radius corner) and the other is a PD(90deg lead 15deg wiper clearance)? The drawing shows the radius on the wrong corner doesn't it?

Still leaves us with 10 and 35 to work out. My chart says "for shapes A, L and N use the length of the leading cutting edge(for inch, use increments of 1/4")"

10 is as close to 9.75 as you can get with ISO. Maybe if the length is specified directly you do that same with the thickness, 3.5mm again pretty rough.

I can't find a width for ISO parallelograms, maybe its a fixed relationship to the length?

Of course I could be reading a little to much into a less that perfect picture

Another thing I thought was funny while looking around is this.


https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=M530#
$275 and you're one insert short of being able to fill all the holders.

Still not much help.

Stuart

I will see if I can find the site where it had the ISO sizing again..but I wont promise...carbide depot has info, but the a site i was at yesterday asked for drop down window for selection based on the iso sizing

No a packet of inserts will fill all those 3 tools nicely
did you notice the MR logo on the end mills...no TM on those in the pic tho', not like the one I got form H&F

That's the kit I bought. The Face mill takes 7 inserts, 16mm takes 2 inserts and 12mm takes 1 insert. $138 for 10!! Now I remember why I went hunting for alternatives. Just replacing the inserts in the face mill costs a fortune.

Both ends of the insert are identical and can be rotated to give a fresh edge which gives you two uses per insert.

hmmmm The picture for the M519 shows it as having two inserts, I guess they used the picture from the M520. Thinking about it, it would be a little hard to get two 6.2mm inserts into the 12mm hole.

Originally Posted by wannabe

Both ends of the insert are identical and can be rotated to give a fresh edge which gives you two uses per insert.

Well there goes my great theory, thought it was a long shot.

Stuart

yes Stuart the smaller 12mm size only has 1 insert
16 and above have multiples