Thread: A Dial Test Indicator Comparison

I had asked the question why anyone would buy a Chinese DTI then deleted the question not realising that Stuart had replied. (Stuart also hit the delete button) It's possibly a toss up between Ray G and Stu as to who has the largest indicator collection but the pith of Stu's response was that if he only had one indicator it would not be Chinese.

Given the abundance of quality used DTIs at prices comparable to those asked for cheap Oriental indicators I still ask why would you bother with the latter? And then for the price of three cartons of you could even buy a crisp new Compac from Swiss Quality Discount. A toss up?

BT

Bob, I think if you did a poll you would find that most of us here would have at least Starrett or Japanese indicators and there would be a good proportion of Swiss in there too. (not to say that there are not some Chinese there too). I suspect that these Chinese indicators are not targeted at people with some knowledge of indicators and what they can do but either people new to machining who are yet to get to "I need a good but affordable indicator" or users who don't care that it's cheap because they don't use it often or fully expect that it may be damaged.

Long Island Indicators also have Swiss vs them comments - 014 : Dial Indicators - Brand Name Comparison

Having said that I found the SQD comparison wearing after a while. I thought his approach quickly moved to a "it's Swiss, so anything different must be bad" basis. I'm sure if the Compac DTI was painted and the Shars version was not the comment would have been along the lines of "The Chinese have not even bothered to paint theirs or remove the machining marks"

Michael

Hello Michael,

I am a frequent visitor to the Long Island site and I detect a similar level of arrogance there to that found in the SDQ indicator summation. If it isn't Swiss or German, forget it.

I have a handful of indicators, Swiss, English, American, German and Japanese. They all do the same job. Long Island say Compacs are the ant's pants. Sure, they are beautifully finished but they don't function any differently to the not so well finished Starretts that I have.

I don't understand the idea of throw away indicators, could be my age. I remember Greg Q's words of advice in a woodie thread about panel saws. Buy the best you can and cry once. Works for me.

Bob.

Just so happens I still have it.(typed most of this last night but found it still here this morning)

*"Coz they're cheap.
Coz I'm a klutz.
Coz much of the time I don't need to get to the nearest 10th of a thou
and coz it came with a cute little stand which I though might come in hand one day.

Now if you're asking "If I was only allowed to have one DTI, would a cheap one be it?" then the answer is no."*

Having a cheap one isn't because I cant afford a good one or "ones" . Though I understand that for some it could be. As you know I now have many more than I did just two years...... I might have a problem??(in fact I miscounted I'd forgotten I added one of the long round mititoyo DTI's to the collection a month or so ago).

Think about using your best chisel chipboard or something that might have a nail in it and then leaving it floating around in the boot of the car. . Sure its nice to have a good chisel but you don't always want to use it.

I do things with the cheap one I couldn't bring myself to do with a "good" one regardless of the price I paid for it.

Centering black bar in a 4 jaw? sure why not. Almost never get put away? yeap that as well.

The thing is for $10 the one I have(and maybe I got the good one) works, it certainly isn't as pretty as my others but it works. I fully expected it to be dead long ago but it just keeps on going.

Now when I start playing in the sub 0.02mmish range or am going for "as good as I can get it" I reach for one of the "good" DTIs. Having said that I don't KNOW that the cheap one isn't just as good(within its range. Couldn't expect a 0.01mm DTI to be as good as a 1/10ths DTI).
I'd also not trust it for an absolute number(though again I don't know its wrong).

Maybe I need to do some tests. I've been playing around with DTIs a lot lately trying to find 0.05ishmm runout in an ER32 adaptor I made.(I'm 99% sure its all in the chuck, which I didnt make, damn cheap Chinese rubbish lol). I have some bar ground between centers in the lathe ATM. I'll see what I come up with.

Stuart

I think your statement ‘ why would anyone buy Chinese’ is ill informed and lacking in common sense. How about I start another thread with something like: ‘Why would anybody buy a 60 year old lathe’ or even better, ‘Why would anybody buy second hand tools?’ Some like warranty and spares availability when they buy, for others it may be they simply just don’t like second hand and perhaps for others, they just don't want to hunt around for used Japanese, Swiss or German items. For some on this forum it is just a hobby, not a life, a vocation or an all consuming obsession. If not for the affordability of Chinese tools a lot of people, including myself, couldn’t enjoy this hobby, it would simply be unaffordable. And of course if you apply your logic to other areas of this hobby, how many thousands of $ would we have to spend to indulge. I own a Chinese indicator, so too are my micrometers, lathe and other items Chinese, so I guess that makes me one of the less knowledgeable that Michael G wrote of. But I'm happy with my Chinese tools, they have served me well, I've never had to throw any away and I'm guessing I'm not alone. I’m aware the ire of some coteries on this forum are quickly raised by comments like mine, but then again, my ire is also raised by ill informed comments like yours. So - a suggestion: why don’t we all use some common sense, it’s not for everyone but perhaps it should be.

I have alot of Chinese tools it all I could afford when I was 12,I find them alright
Although this forum has made steer away from the Chinese stuff because I want tools I can use for the rest of my life and won't break on me.

Originally Posted by gngh

I think your statement ‘ why would anyone buy Chinese’ is ill informed and lacking in common sense.

My question was about dial test indicators, nothing more.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Just so happens I still have it.(typed most of this last night but found it still here this morning)

*"Coz they're cheap.
Coz I'm a klutz.
Coz much of the time I don't need to get to the nearest 10th of a thou
and coz it came with a cute little stand which I though might come in hand one day.

Now if you're asking "If I was only allowed to have one DTI, would a cheap one be it?" then the answer is no."*

Having a cheap one isn't because I cant afford a good one or "ones" . Though I understand that for some it could be. As you know I now have many more than I did just two years...... I might have a problem??(in fact I miscounted I'd forgotten I added one of the long round mititoyo DTI's to the collection a month or so ago).

Think about using your best chisel chipboard or something that might have a nail in it and then leaving it floating around in the boot of the car. . Sure its nice to have a good chisel but you don't always want to use it.

I do things with the cheap one I couldn't bring myself to do with a "good" one regardless of the price I paid for it.

Centering black bar in a 4 jaw? sure why not. Almost never get put away? yeap that as well.

The thing is for $10 the one I have(and maybe I got the good one) works, it certainly isn't as pretty as my others but it works. I fully expected it to be dead long ago but it just keeps on going.

Now when I start playing in the sub 0.02mmish range or am going for "as good as I can get it" I reach for one of the "good" DTIs. Having said that I don't KNOW that the cheap one isn't just as good(within its range. Couldn't expect a 0.01mm DTI to be as good as a 1/10ths DTI).
I'd also not trust it for an absolute number(though again I don't know its wrong).

Maybe I need to do some tests. I've been playing around with DTIs a lot lately trying to find 0.05ishmm runout in an ER32 adaptor I made.(I'm 99% sure its all in the chuck, which I didnt make, damn cheap Chinese rubbish lol). I have some bar ground between centers in the lathe ATM. I'll see what I come up with.

Stuart

Stu,

My most often used indicator is a beater Mercer half thou 1" travel model. The bezel is dented, the body and crystal, scratched. Came with a push button mag base similar to the little Eclipse bases more commonly available and cost me all up, thirty bucks. It is the indicator I use for initial truing work in the 4 jaw. I have others but this is the one I'm happiest running around the outside of a scaly chunk of cast iron. It's been subjected to cast iron dust, splashed with oil and cutting fluid, smacked by chuck jaws and still works as well as when I bought it ten years ago. Closest thing I have to a Chinese throw away.

Bob.

Like I said, I have a Chinese dial indicator, I bought it at the same time as my Polish Indicator. The Polish indicator was thrown away years ago but the Chinese one is still in excellent condition and I use it regularly, none too gently I might add. I'll be buying another soon, not to replace my original but to mount it permanently to my 4 jaw centreing tool. I'll definitely buy another Chinese indicator because my original has and still does serve me well. I see no point in wasting $$, particularly when I can use the saved $$ to buy more Chinese tools.

Thanks for that comparison link Bob, regardless of his one eyed view he did make quite a few valid points.

I think I paid more for my Chinese indicators than I did the Swiss ones that I have are MeasureMax Chinese ?

I won't be doing that again tho

Hi BT,
Up to this point I thought we were talking about DTI's.

Do you know of anyone that has had a cheap DTI that has failed?(or dial gauge for that matter?)

I've only checked my DTIs.

25=0.64mm on the cheap one (should be 0.635mm)
25=25 on the 0.0005" compac
25=24.98 on the 0.0001" compac
15=13 on the last word
5=5 on second last word(couldnt get a repeatable reading over a longer distance, errors in the 0.0015" range)
8=7.9 on the 0.0001 girod
25=0.63mm on the swivel mit
25=24.8 on the 0.001" round mit

Stuart

Not sure why some of you are using dial indicators of any type to be setting black bar or cast iron up in a 4 jaw chuck.

The common method is to use a pin attached with bee's wax or similar to the tool or tool post or a surface gauge/scribe block ,even using you cutting tool as a reference is better.

The dial indicators should be used on machined surfaces only.

Originally Posted by pipeclay

Not sure why some of you are using dial indicators of any type to be setting black bar or cast iron up in a 4 jaw chuck.

Because(assuming the DTI was already set up) its quicker(not something that normally worries me overly) and easier.

Originally Posted by pipeclay

The common method is to use a pin attached with bee's wax or similar to the tool or tool post or a surface gauge/scribe block ,even using you cutting tool as a reference is better.

Hey you can just eyeball the chuck jaws if you want. I've never tried the bee's wax/pin technique just the cutting tool, but the eyesight isnt what it used to be.
All depends how close I need to be.

You may think its abuse to use a DTI on black bar. With my good DTI's I would agree. As I said, with the cheap DTI I do things I wouldnt do with a "good" one. This brings up another point which many here have heard from me before. In five weeks or five years when my cheap DTI fails, who's to blame, the Chinese or me?? Sure my $150 Compac will still be going strong but thats because its spent 99.9% of its life in its plastic box in the draw.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi BT,

Up to this point I thought we were talking about DTI's.

Stuart

We were Stuart but the fellow who accused me of making a statement that was both ill informed and lacking in common sense, appeared to be discussing dial indicators not dial test indicators.

I don't make a habit of keel hauling the Mercer on cast iron and I have never used a DTI on anything but a machined surface. I should have known Peter would pounce on that comment.

Bob.

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